Meet the most expensive cactus

[ElieEstephane]

I understand something is very rare or facing extinction but this is just crazy! Work should be done towards conservation, not discouraging people with such crazy prices!
https://shop.hotcactus.la/products/haag ... 9791918104

Credit: Joel Lode ( https://www.cactuspro.com/forum/read.php?1,690555)

[DaveW]

EBAY is just the same, you only have to list a plant as "Rare", whether it is or not and price it highly and some fool with more money than sense will buy it. I have not read many seed lists lately to see if it is available from seed? Do we know that is the only locality for it? Many plants thought to have only come from a single locality have been found at other localities later since most cactus habitats have only been poorly botanised. Eriosyce laui and Mammillaria luethyi to name only a couple found to be more widespread than previously thought.

A lot of amateurs, who usually find most of these plants, will no longer inform Kew to update the Red Data Book if they do find other localities. Some even complain if you find they exist elsewhere in hundreds and inform them the Red Data Book entry once listed will never be deleted, no matter how inaccurate it is. Which being a supposed work of science it automatically should be. I guess it is a case of the professional botanists who originally listed it loosing face to amateurs if they delist.

Paul Hoxey knows these Peruvian localities as well as anybody since his wife comes from Arequipa, therefore he now spends a lot of time in Peru. I have seen a few of his talks on these areas and he even has plants he found named after him. From the size of the plant you illustrate the Japanese could cut it into numerous segments and graft it and have hundreds of plants for sale within a year or so if they wanted.

As usual some are immediately blaming illegal collection, though the IUCN Red List does not say this is a problem. Rather the real cause is agriculture, which is often embarrassing to governments if highlighted in the press. Therefore collecting is often used as "a smokescreen", being more politically acceptable to criticise. There is no point trying to preserve plants in habitat if you do not first preserve the habitat. But restricting agriculture, road building etc would not get the politicians in those countries elected, anymore than it would in our countries. Certainly closing that poultry farm would not be popular among those in that area. Particularly if it was a foreign organisation pressing them to do so.

From the IUCN Red List:-

"The species is severely threatened, as part of the population occurs near a large road where it is exposed to contamination (both through littering and air pollution). A poultry farm nearby emits air pollution, both feathers and small particles, that is also affecting the cacti. A large proportion of this subpopulation has died over the past years, but the exact reason (i.e., how the contamination kills it) is unknown. The remainder of the population lies on a hill and is thus a bit farther away from the road. This part of the population seems to be relatively safe from pollution. In the 2004 study by Novoa et al. (2010) nearly 60% of dead branches were found in H. tenuis; the patches near the road had a significantly lower density and more dead branches than the patches that are located more than 400 m away from the road."

http://www.iucnredlist.org/details/152883/0

Even in Chile though it is often climate change in these areas which were previously watered by regular mist that is causing the plants gradual death. The Cacti of extreme Northern Chile near the border of Peru for instance such as Eriosyce krainziana.

[Robb]

What kind of conservation efforts are there towards cacti in Chile in the first place? You'd hope that any government would clue into the fact that as a rare plant with a highly restricted habitat H. tenuis would merit some sort of conservation effort. As you said Dave, with climate change becoming an even more important factor there is probably a very high risk for it becoming extinct in habitat within the coming decades. One would hope that this plant is able to be introduced more widely in cultivation and offered for far more reasonable prices!

[DaveW]

Haageocerus tenuis is of course Peruvian, but Peru and Chile often share similar coastal conditions in those areas. I gather the Chileans do now try and replant cacti they move for road building etc, or at least some of them. However as Roger Ferryman says they don't then give them the aftercare a collector would to re-establish them, since they often need watering periodically until their roots re-establish. Also as we all know old plants are often difficult to re-establish anyway once their roots have been damaged. The tragedy is the present official conservation mindset does not let these rescued plants be sold internationally due to oppressive bureaucracy and paperwork, with the money raised used to finance conservation projects in the country concerned.

There are a tremendous amount of new road building and agricultural projects as well as mining going on in S. America, but they are doing no more to their natural flora than we did to ours in the past in order to advance the standard of living for their people. Unfortunately it's the native flora that always suffers. Every house we live in, or factory we work in and all our roads and car parks destroyed some of our native flora to build them.

As said before, all those calling for conservation in situ have to first conserve the habitat. If not conservation ex situ makes more sense. In some cases with climate change (and not all climate change is man made) we have to accept that those habitats will change and the plants die out there. That is just natural ev0lution that has happened for millions of years since the world is not a static entity, with one species going extinct to provide a new niche for another to ev0lve into. After all the world has been through a series of Ice Ages and eventually will go through another that will greatly modify the worlds flora and fauna once again.

Conservation is often illogical, since as they say human beings are quite keen to preserve attractive creatures like the Elephant but not the flea, though both are part of the natural world. We are also quite keen to exterminate anything harmful to humans like Bubonic Plague or Ebola, but viruses and bacteria are just as much a part of the worlds flora and fauna as are the higher plants and animals and part of the natural checks on population numbers and density.

[ElieEstephane]

It's not about conservation per se but if i were to stumble upon a plant that could sell for a quarter of a million, anyone is gonna jump to the habitat and collect as many as he can hoping to be a millionaire. This kind of behavior is more endangering to the species. And even if the plant is not stolen, the 1000s of seeds collected in the habitat would eradicate any hopes of the plants ever restarting in habitat.

[TimN]

Anybody can list a cactus for $250,000, finding an actual buyer is the tricky part. Also, I don't understand how the seller personally profiting is going to make a bit of difference to the survival of the species. If survival of the species is the paramount concern, donating it to a research facility may be more effective at achieving the purported objective.

Cynic that I am, I think the objective here is to make money. Judging from the other plants listed on that site, maximizing personal return is undoubtedly the primary objective.

Looking at the list of most expensive plants sold (internet list) only three are more than $100K. All of the plants on the list have some sort of esoteric qualities in addition to rarity. How did this valuation come about? Rarity does not always convey desirability.

[esp_imaging]

The price is a joke. Possibly in an attempt to gain attention (which has succeeded).

If I you are desperate to own Haageocereus tenuis, there is the option of stumping up $1.50 for 10 seeds with ADBLPs rather then buying the mature specimen priced at a fortune. The source of the seeds is given as Parque Las Leyendas in Lima - presumably they are distributed by the botanical garden there, and are an example of a rare species being made available by conservationists to collectors.

[Robb]

Haageocerus tenuis is of course Peruvian,

Thanks for correcting me Dave, I think I got Chile and Peru confused!

presumably they are distributed by the botanical garden there, and are an example of a rare species being made available by conservationists to collectors.

I'm glad there is at least some sort of legitimate source for them. At the very least there will be decent numbers of plants in cultivation should it go extinct in the wild.

[esp_imaging]

It looks like there's a decent number of them at the Botanical Garden in Lima (photo from 2015, I think, so fairly recent):

[DesertSun]

It's not about conservation per se but if i were to stumble upon a plant that could sell for a quarter of a million, anyone is gonna jump to the habitat and collect as many as he can hoping to be a millionaire. This kind of behavior is more endangering to the species. And even if the plant is not stolen, the 1000s of seeds collected in the habitat would eradicate any hopes of the plants ever restarting in habitat.

Indeed, that makes so much sense, I don't know how these people are thinking. That is what is happening to many endangered species, orchids among them. So many species are being eradicated for greed.

[DaveW]

Of course you first would have to get them out of the country. Not so easy with CITES regulations when airline bags are routinely X-Rayed these days. After seeing all the development going on in Chile I would not consider collecting generally is the major threat to cacti, but it may be to individual species. I saw quite a few holes where Thelocephala's grew in Chile and in the past some jumped to the conclusion the plants had been robbed by collectors, but on close examination many were sprouting small plants at the bottom of the hole from the remaining roots and were in fact Guanaco or Goat scrapes where they had dug up the plant and eaten the top off but the tuberous root below regenerated. The Guanaco's can find the plants by smell even when they are completely buried, but then they have always done this and the species survived. Many plants regenerate from seed in the ground over time, so even loss of all visible plants does not always mean the species is extinct as is sometimes mistakenly claimed. Annuals of course exist in this form in dry areas until the rains come again and no doubt many so called perennials can do the same.

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/arc ... es/470070/

http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/content/ ... ew/6425898

https://www.nationalparkstraveler.org/2 ... stlers9569

http://www.desertusa.com/dusablog/cactus-wrangling.html

The problem is not so easy to stop within a country since the indigenous people have traditionally dug them up to clear their ground, but moving plants across International borders is now very difficult due to CITES, even across the Mexican border to the USA, or from USA to Canada. One of the best protections for cacti in parts of Mexico at the moment is the even more illegal drugs trade since those engaged in it don't like strangers running around their area, therefore you could be putting yourself in danger since claiming you were collecting cacti would not be believable for them. A friend of mine was stopped at an armed road block in one of those areas, but luckily it was one by the Mexican police and not the smugglers, so advised to get out of the area.

[Nopaltzin]

Of course you first would have to get them out of the country. Not so easy with CITES regulations when airline bags are routinely X-Rayed these days. After seeing all the development going on in Chile I would not consider collecting generally is the major threat to cacti, but it may be to individual species. I saw quite a few holes where Thelocephala's grew in Chile and in the past some jumped to the conclusion the plants had been robbed by collectors, but on close examination many were sprouting small plants at the bottom of the hole from the remaining roots and were in fact Guanaco or Goat scrapes where they had dug up the plant and eaten the top off but the tuberous root below regenerated. The Guanaco's can find the plants by smell even when they are completely buried, but then they have always done this and the species survived. Many plants regenerate from seed in the ground over time, so even loss of all visible plants does not always mean the species is extinct as is sometimes mistakenly claimed. Annuals of course exist in this form in dry areas until the rains come again and no doubt many so called perennials can do the same.

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/arc ... es/470070/

http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/content/ ... ew/6425898

https://www.nationalparkstraveler.org/2 ... stlers9569

http://www.desertusa.com/dusablog/cactus-wrangling.html

The problem is not so easy to stop within a country since the indigenous people have traditionally dug them up to clear their ground, but moving plants across International borders is now very difficult due to CITES, even across the Mexican border to the USA, or from USA to Canada. One of the best protections for cacti in parts of Mexico at the moment is the even more illegal drugs trade since those engaged in it don't like strangers running around their area, therefore you could be putting yourself in danger since claiming you were collecting cacti would not be believable for them. A friend of mine was stopped at an armed road block in one of those areas, but luckily it was one by the Mexican police and not the smugglers, so advised to get out of the area.

Very interesting comment Dave