revision of weingartia/cintia/sulcorebutia

[Arjen]

as many of you know I am more and more into weingartia and sulcorebutia these days, I have also made it no secret that I disagree with the lumping of these genera into rebutia by both 'the new cactus lexicon' and 'the cactus family'.
there were always strong indications that at least weingartia and sulcorebutia were related, werdermann proposed lumping them into a large genus weingartia in 1951.
a few days ago I discovered some articles I did not know existed, I found out that based on hybridization and DNA-research the genus weingartia was revised in 2008 to include both sulcorebutia and cintia.
the evidence supporting it is so strong that it rocked my 'sulco-world', causing me to change the labels, I would even go as far as to say that keeping the names rebutia, sulcorebutia or cintia for these species can only be done for sentimental reasons or to keep track of a collection.
hybridization experiments have also lead to the conclusion of placing the entire genus rebutia closer to echinopsis than to weingartia.

here are some articles supporting these viewpoints: (they are in german so my suggestion is to use google translate)

the revision of the genus:
http://www.english.sulcopassion.be/0039_2008.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

taxonomic changes based on the revision:
http://www.sulco-gertel.de/media/33a810 ... 144226.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

an article in english on the relations between the genera rebutia, weingartia and echinopsis:
http://www.english.sulcopassion.be/0107_2001.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[phil_SK]

I assume you're familiar with the work of Ritz et al., too?

[fanaticactus]

I am in awe of those botanists who have the interest, drive and knowledge to trace the DNA of cacti genera to discover which ones are related. The weingars/sulcos/rebutias I knew about (cintia I've never really looked at, altho I've just ordered my first one from Corona), but to find out that Rebutias could be more closely related to Echinopsis blows my mind!

[Arjen]

phil, in a way.. I have only read little of it in the past, I remember a recent discussion we had here particularly on clade E2
very interesting article though! a lot of the 'yargon' is a bit beyond me so I'll have fun reading it this does confirm my points of view though and may very well have been included in the research that lead to the revision

fanaticactus, yes, me too! and not only that, I'm extremely thankful for their effort! weingartia and sulcorebutia were a true minefield with many transitional forms to raise eyebrows, this revision and the resulting dividing into subgroups have erased that and all transition
this is mostly why I am so eager to adopt these viewpoints

be careful watering your cintia, not only does it rot when watered to much, it will also tear very quickly!

[vbueno]

Weingartia neumanniana x rauschii a hybrid

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/n ... directlink" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Vicent

[Arjen]

that's a beautiful example of a weingartia hybrid!

[GeneS]

Weingartia neumanniana x rauschii a hybrid

Very interesting! Looking forward to seeing the F2 versions!

Loved this group for many years until space dictated that something had to go! Now that I have some room ...

Cheers ... GeneS

[Arjen]

actually this is a very good genus for people who don't have much space, most of the plants stay small

[Gnostic]

but to find out that Rebutias could be more closely related to Echinopsis blows my mind!

I wonder if a rebutia x exhinopsis or reverse hybrid would be possible. I bet it would make for an interesting looking plant with amazing flowers.

[vbueno]

You can get hybrids Echinopsis (Lobivia) famatinensis with Rebutia (Mediolobivia) einsteinii ssp. aureiflora.
Unfortunately, I lost the seedlings a few months.
Sometimes hybrids are stronger than parents. Other times they are weaker.