Phantom Plant Eater

[Tiggy]

Something is having a feast of a time on a few of plants in the greenhouse. The strange thing is it's only on the odd one. A few days ago whilst checking around I decided to see how my Echeveria perle von Nurnberg was doing as it was on the top shelf and not easily visible. To my horror the centre leaves of the plant were all detaching and there were these little dark brown or black things on it. I removed it, took off all the lose leaves but couldn't see any sign of what could have caused the damage apart from these dark things which looked more like bits of dirt or compost. All the other Echveria on the same shelf were untouched, but I was having a problem with another little plant in there before this, again no sign of what it could be just half eaten leaves. This on was on the bottom shelf. Today when I went in for a quick check, I found these black bits on another plant also on the top shelf but along the other side of the greenhouse, at least there didn't seem to be any damage to the plant this time. I have taken a few leaves from the Echeveria to see if I can get them to sprout, although it isn't really the best time for this. I do have another one that is outside in the cold patch which is perfectly alright at the moment. I just can't work out what the intruder is Any ideas? All suggestions welcome. Sorry for the quality of the photos, it was late in the day and cold so I didn't have time to mess about.
Any suggestions for the ID of these two? I was waiting for flowers to try and ID them but at this rate I'll be a long time waiting.

This is the one that I found the "bits" on today:

Plant eater 11.01.2014 (1).JPG (74.01 KiB) Viewed 2103 times

Plant eater 11.01.2014 (2).JPG (67.07 KiB) Viewed 2103 times

And this is the first one to have been made a meal of:

Plant eater 11.01.2014 (3).JPG (99.72 KiB) Viewed 2103 times

Plant eater 11.01.2014 (4).JPG (94.18 KiB) Viewed 2103 times

She's only tiny and has rally struggled to survive then just as she was getting going this had to happen.

Susi

[bluetexasbonnie]

I would guess a grasshopper managed to find him a nice warm house with a buffet for the winter.

... uuh, do you have grasshoppers in Italy? I've never cared enough about them in a general way to see what kind of distribution they have -- I just know that I have plenty.

[BarryRice]

I'm thinking the dark bits of stuff you mentioned is poop. It sounds more and more like an insect. Do the occasional inspection of your plants at night. Perhaps you'll find the creature that way.

[Tiggy]

I'm thinking the dark bits of stuff you mentioned is poop. It sounds more and more like an insect. Do the occasional inspection of your plants at night. Perhaps you'll find the creature that way.

nThat is the conclusion that we also came to given the consistency of it. I do check several times a day on the plants, but usually a general overhaul in order spot imminent problems such as this. This morning I checked the greenhouse even earlier to see if it had been out again and this time I have actually caught it in the act, but don't know what the h-ll it is. I checked on the pests & disease section but couldn't identify it. I have removed all what I could find on this plant after taking some photos, and have rushed in to upload them in the hope that someone can advice me. Don't normally come on the comp. until after 09.00pm but I can't wait that long today. Here's the photos of the culprit:

Plant eater update 12.01.2014 (4).JPG (75.88 KiB) Viewed 2085 times

Plant eater update 12.01.2014 (7).JPG (70.98 KiB) Viewed 2085 times

Plant eater update 12.01.2014 (5).JPG (86.49 KiB) Viewed 2085 times

Healthy looking bug though don't you think?

Suysi

[Tiggy]

I would guess a grasshopper managed to find him a nice warm house with a buffet for the winter.

... uuh, do you have grasshoppers in Italy? I've never cared enough about them in a general way to see what kind of distribution they have -- I just know that I have plenty.

Yes we do have grasshoppers here and crickets etc. but this is definitely NOT one of those, (unless they are the larve of course). I am curious to see if someone can ID them for me now.

Susi

[bluetexasbonnie]

Are you sure that green lumpy stuff is alive. It really looks like fresh bug poop to me.

[BarryRice]

Hey Susi

Wait, you're telling me those elongated green blobs are the pest???

They look more like blobs of frass!!!

Do you see them actually moving??

Barry

[Tiggy]

Really? In that case the surveillance continues I never actually checked to see if it was alive or not, I just removed as quickly as possible after taking the photos. The two plants are now in the house so if there is something still lurking on them I'll have more chance to spot them. You're probably right though. Ok "Back to the drawing board".........

Susi

Barry by frass are you suggesting the same as "bluetexasbonnie"? In this case I need a "poo expert"

[bluetexasbonnie]

Yes, frass is the fancy word for bug poop. Big grasshoppers and big catapillars leave mounds like that.

[BarryRice]

But....what the heck eats vegetable matter, then poops it out so rapidly that the frass is still green???

I've not heard of such a thing!

[adetheproducer]

But....what the heck eats vegetable matter, then poops it out so rapidly that the frass is still green???

I've not heard of such a thing!

Catapillars, they will eat it the patterns seen in the pictures. Also it explains why to poo is futher down the plant compared to the points of damage. Check around the pot for nooks and crevices they can hide in like the lip of a pot.

[Tiggy]

Mmmm! I have checked all over the plants and on the surface of the compost, but in light of what you have said tomorrow I think I will de-pot them and have a look actually in the compost. The strange thing is that the first plant was on the bottom shelf of the greenhouse the second victim was on the top shelf at the other end (the Echeveria) and the last one (the photo with the poop on) was on the top shelf but along the side. So none of them were next to each other, plus where the Echeveria was there are several more pots with various Echeverias in none of which have been affected, (yet). Plus the one with the poop in doesn't actually have much damage on considering how much excrement I found. Anyway I'll check inside the pots tomorrow and see if I can solve the mystery. These two plants were not in very good condition when I bought them and I have been coddling them for over a year to get them into shape and was so hoping that maybe they would flower for me or this year or next in order to ID them, but the little one has taken quite a bashing with this "pooper". As I said above these two ar in the house now and I keep having a quick look to see if it has decided to put in another appearance. I have brushed them all over with diluted alcohol in an effort to deter it.
See what the morning brings now. Thank you all for your help.

Susi

[CactusFanDan]

Sometimes my cats give my plants a nibble (like my Dasylirion seedlings ), but this looks more serious and insect-like to me. Maybe try some insect repellent or just go on the offensive and spray an aerosol insecticide around.

[Tiggy]

I did actually spray around the greenhouse over the plants and on the sides etc. a couple of times as a precaution but it doesn't seem to have stopped this little blighter. Maybe I should mix it a bit stronger next time, although do you think it would have the same effect if it is caterpillars or similar? Should do shouldn't it?

Susi

[bluetexasbonnie]

I am not giving up on the grasshopper or similar idea. They are the only thing that has ever munched on my Echeverias. We have lots of different kinds of catapillars and between them all, few things are safe. The seemingly random pattern of which plant to graze today would be more typical of a legged-winged critter. Catapillars tend to be more linear in their movements -- but there are always exceptions.

Spinosad -http://www.cgfi.org/2005/07/ultra-safe- ... -problems/ and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spinosad -- is effective against grasshoppers and many catapillars. If you are convinced that it is a catapillar, then a Bt based product like Di-pel --http://www.fertilome.com/product.aspx?p ... 541b864d6d is extremely effective.

In either case, the culprit may not be hiding in the pot. It might be hiding among the pots.