Echinopsis: Is it a lost cause?

Trouble shoot problems you are having with your cactus.
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catlady
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Echinopsis: Is it a lost cause?

Post by catlady »

My dad gave me an echinopsis cactus baby around 18 years ago. It grew pretty large, and eventually when I moved away for college and no one at home pulled the pups off, it turned into a cluster with three large barrels and a bunch of pups. Over the last winter, I very badly overwatered it by accident (I know they don't like much water over the winter, but I'm in California and it was so warm and dry I figured it needed a little, and had a series of crises this winter and lost track of just how much I'd been watering it). I didn't realize until rot had set in.

I managed to rescue one of the barrels (stems? not sure what they'd be called), and one pup with this guide: http://homeguides.sfgate.com/rescuing-o ... 30493.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. I waited a week to replant them in moist cactus soil, and then waited a little over a week to water. I've been watering very lightly about once a week since. Now that it's gotten very warm (90s), I've been watering every three days or when the soil is dry, whichever is longer. The pup is teeny but is doing very well, and has started to grow a little. The barrel, not so much; it's in pretty bad shape. It was pretty badly scarred. It seems to be hanging in there (it's green, seems to be firm to the touch or at least not squishy). But it's not growing at all as far as I can tell, and doesn't seem to have changed at all since I repotted it. I let the soil dry out completely between waterings. The last time I watered, I added liquid cactus food to the water (seven drops to one quart as instructed). It's been about two months.

I'm wondering if I'm going too far the other direction and need to water more, or if it just needs more time to recover from the shock? Or is it pretty much done for? Is there anything else I can be doing to help it heal? It's indoors in a north-facing window (all I have are north or east). I have no air conditioning, so it's plenty warm. I can move it outside for more sun, but I live in an apartment building where items left outside tend to be stolen (we're on our third garden hose this year, and we've had plants go missing in the past), so I'd prefer not to unless it will really help. However, if that's what it needs, I'll do it. I'd love to save it if it's at all possible. I'm pretty attached to it and I hate to see it so sick because I screwed up. :(

http://i59.tinypic.com/2qx99hz.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://i61.tinypic.com/xfxhg2.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's leaning like that because I did a bad job repotting it and I don't want to damage it more by doing it again yet. The fuzz is from my cat, she's shedding and it floats around everywhere 24/7 right now. I -think- the blackish spots in the middle of those scabs is soil; I added some last week because it had settled a little since I repotted. It seems to rub off easily from the surface.
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hegar
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Re: Echinopsis: Is it a lost cause?

Post by hegar »

Well, it may be a little premature to call your plant "a lost cause". However, I do agree with your assessment of it being in bad shape.
There must have been more than just over watering to give it this appearance. All the brown patches on its side indicate, that the skin got damaged by either mechanical means or by insect/mite feeding, etc..
The most worrisome aspect to me though is, that the apex (top) of your large Echinopsis stem looks brown. I only grow cacti outside and have experienced something like this and - as a matter of fact, one of my Queen of the Night cacti is having this problem right now - cannot exactly determine what the reason for this die-back is. It seems to be a "dry rot" and sometimes it does stop all by itself.
I would place your plant in the window facing east instead of north, just so that it will receive more light.
As long as there is no internal rot occurring there is still hope. Cacti are notoriously slow, responding to a change in their environment, especially if they are already weakened. Transplanting will also set them back, even if done carefully. Fortunately, they are also slow to die, unless of course there is an internal rot present or the environmental conditions are drastically changed in a way that is detrimental for optimum growth.
Another thing: I do have a large clump of Echinopsis eyriesii in my yard. I do water that plant weekly at this time, unless we experience a good rain. That species is a tough one. Because I do not grow my plants in pots I cannot give you much valid and good information about this kind of cultivation. A lot of growers do not purchase "cactus soil", because it is too rich, containing too much peat moss and other organic matter. Perhaps members of the Echinopsis genus will grow well with this growth medium. However, most desert cacti will not fare well in it. You could look up what experienced cactus growers have used for growing their plants by clicking on the "Growing Cacti" tab above.


Harald
catlady
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Re: Echinopsis: Is it a lost cause?

Post by catlady »

Thank you very much for the reply! Some of the scarring is older (probably sunburn or pests like you say; my parents had it outside on a west wall with not a lot of shade while I was in college and all of the larger parts had a little scarring when I got it back a few years ago), but most of it seems to have formed where the skin split when I overwatered it and was trying to separate it from the more rotted parts of the cluster. It had gotten very oversaturated. I didn't think it was going to make it at all, but it didn't seem to have any rot at that point (I trimmed all the brown I found off the roots) and was fairly green once it was out of the water for a few days. But it has been like this since.

I will keep an eye on the top. Are there any other signs I might see if it has continued to rot, other than the brown at the top? Or will it just cave in on itself at some point? I'll move it to another window right now. I will also look into changing the soil, but I worry about doing that when it's obviously doing poorly. Thank you very much for the tips.
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cactushobbyman
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Re: Echinopsis: Is it a lost cause?

Post by cactushobbyman »

"It's never over until it's over," I have taken out plants from the garden that look so bad that most people would have trashed them. I re-pot them and put them in an area with 1/2 to 3/4 of the normal sun exposure and treat for everything possibly bad. Then the hardest part, wait. Plants like your will come back with pups. I let the pups develop and re-plant them. Some make and some don't. With yours, clean it up, clean the roots with water and remove all the old soil, let dry for a few days, replant and see what happens in a few months. :)
catlady
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Re: Echinopsis: Is it a lost cause?

Post by catlady »

Alright, thank you for the advice! I will see about mixing a more suitable soil, then I will repot again and see what happens. I did clean the roots very well of all the dirt and let it dry when I repotted after overwatering it. Do I need to do that again, or if the roots are clean of any pests/rot, can I just repot it immediately and not water it for a few days?

I really don't care about the appearance, I'm just attached to this cactus and feel terrible for hurting it so badly. :( It's done alright for so long without me knowing what I'm doing that I didn't realize I was doing such a poor job of caring for it, lol. Now I want to learn how to do better.
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hegar
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Re: Echinopsis: Is it a lost cause?

Post by hegar »

I cannot tell for sure, if the potting medium you used is suitable for your cactus. You said early on, that the plant was successfully grown for a good number of years. If the "soil" was similar to the one you just used for re-potting, then there should not be a need to change it. Every time you take a plant out of a pot you inevitably break a few of the feeder roots off, which allows microorganisms to enter the plant more easily, if it is re-potted immediately. So it may not be a good idea to "shock" your cactus by transplanting it again.
However, taking it out after several weeks of having been placed in the new growing medium will allow you to see, if anything has changed with the root system, be it for the better or worse. A lot of times the bacterial soft rot does start at or just below the soil line.
If there were few if any roots to begin with the damage done by transplanting is not severe, as long as you do not water the cactus right away. Because it is a larger plant it can go without watering for a week or two without dying, because a lot of water is stored in the stem tissue. With few roots or without them the uptake of water will be close to zero anyway. You could then mist the top lightly and perhaps some water will enter through the stomates. I believe, that cacti are plants that open their stomates at night (crassulean acid cycle), but I may be wrong.
Either way, whatever your are doing, you will have to give the plant time. It may already be too late to save it, but sometimes a cactus will surprise you and - after what seems to be an eternity - will revive. I had that happen to my "Early Bloomers" (Echinomastus intertextus) plants. I used to have two of them and both looked horrible after some time. So I decided to transplant the better looking one and left the "death candidate" in place. Guess what happened? The transplanted cactus died, while the other one recovered and is still alive.

Harald
catlady
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Re: Echinopsis: Is it a lost cause?

Post by catlady »

It's been in this kind of soil for a few years. I have to admit that when I was a kid, we always just used the dirt from outside for plants, which was pretty sandy. It would probably do better in something similar to that, it had its best growth and a lot of blooms back then. I figured bringing it inside was causing problems but the soil change probably did, too.

So now my question is, if I want to repot, how long should I give it to heal before I do that? I looked back through my notes and it's been six weeks since I let it dry out for a week and then repotted originally. Should I wait another month or two, or do you think it has healed enough from the first trauma to do so, say, this weekend? About how long in general should one wait between re-potting cacti? And will this apply for the pup as well? I have it in the same soil, but I'd like to start it out right.

Thank you so much for all of your help and advice. Until this, I had no idea I was doing so many things wrong, so if I can save these two, at least they will be getting much better care in the future!
catlady
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Re: Echinopsis: Is it a lost cause?

Post by catlady »

Also, I read here that it's good to give a dose of a systemic pesticide at the start of the growing season to prevent pests. You mentioned that some of the damage looked like it had been caused by pests; if that's the case, I'd definitely like to prevent that from happening again. Is it safe to give a small dose now? Or should I wait until next year?
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hegar
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Re: Echinopsis: Is it a lost cause?

Post by hegar »

Well, because I do not grow any cacti - except for one - in a pot, I am not using any purchased cactus growing medium. I live near the mountains and collect some of the gritty material that is prevalent in our arroyos (dry creek beds, that after rains fill up with water and run-off from the mountains). I do use this material and generously mix it into the desert soil outside. Our soil is sandy here on the mesa, while there is more clay-type soil near the river. However, if you do have sandy soil without a lot of humus (organic matter) you most likely would have a good growing medium for your cacti. Otherwise you can look at the "recipe" for producing good cactus "soil" by clicking on the "Growing Cacti" tab above.
As far as how long to wait, there are several things to consider. First: were you able to extract the plant without tearing any of its lager roots? Second: Do you have a dry environment for the roots to heal? Third: Are there many roots on your plant? I would say, that after one week of having been removed the roots should have formed callus layers and the risk of entry by microorganisms after planting is highly reduced, especially if you do not water the plant for another week or so.
The use of a systemic insecticide should only be considered, if insects are present, i.e. root mealybugs, spider mites, etc. While systemic pesticides can be applied to the top of the plant, it is best to have the uptake done by the roots. With few or no roots though, it would not be very useful to apply systemics. Dipping the roots into a rooting hormone might be more beneficial.

Harald
catlady
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Re: Echinopsis: Is it a lost cause?

Post by catlady »

Thank you again for the help. :)
catlady
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Re: Echinopsis: Is it a lost cause?

Post by catlady »

Okay, I ordered some sand and perlite and made a mix with approximately 40-50% the cactus soil I already had, 30-40% sand and 20-30% perlite. (I counted scoops, but they were all different sizes so that's not exact.) Hopefully that will be a better-draining mix. The cactus soil I had was the Miracle Gro kind with peat in it, but I couldn't find a potting soil mix without it and had most of a bag anyway, plus I figure the fertilizer can't hurt.

I've also carefully removed my cactus from her current pot, cleaned off the roots as gently as possible (I didn't break any roots, although I did pull off another areole in the process :( ) and took a look. They don't seem to have grown much, if at all, in the past 7-8 weeks. However, they do look clean and I see no signs of pests. The side she was leaning on looked a little yellow-green and slightly wrinkled. This was also the side that was against another stem when I had the whole cactus (three large stems and several babies), and doesn't look changed from the last time I had her out of the pot. Almost all of the roots are on the other side of the cactus. Could the color be because that area wasn't getting as much light/air flow as the rest, or a holdover from when it was part of the original cactus? It doesn't feel soft or mushy. I do remember it being closer to the color of the rest of the stem, but the rest also seems much greener than it did several weeks ago (nice and bright, when I know it was all sort of yellow-green back then), so it may just be the contrast throwing me off.

I was planning on re-potting her Tuesday morning, a little over 48 hours from now, since I didn't cause any new root damage and can't see any other issues. However, if the roots haven't been growing, what should I do? Hold off re-potting until there's some growth? Use a rooting hormone?

The pup has been doing so well I'm wondering if I should re-pot or wait until it's bigger. For what it's worth, it was about the size of the tip of my index finger when I first potted it, and it's about the size of the tip of my thumb or slightly larger now. Still tiny, but almost doubled in size already, and a nice, bright green. I'm thinking I might just leave it alone until next spring.

Sorry to keep asking so many questions (and for writing so much each time). I know it might be easier to just start over, but I'd really love to save this cactus. Even if I can't, I think I'll learn a lot from trying. (This whole process has gotten me really interested in cacti in general, though, and I was looking through the selection at Lowe's while tracking down the perlite, so maybe once I've got this one re-potted, I'll get a few more and see if I can't get it right this time. I miss having houseplants.)
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greenknight
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Re: Echinopsis: Is it a lost cause?

Post by greenknight »

Go ahead and pot it, but wait a week or so before you water it. Choose a pot that's only a little larger than the size of the current root system.

Repotting the pup will hardly slow it down, and it will be safer in a good free-draining mix. I would do that now, as well.
Spence :mrgreen:
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cactushobbyman
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Re: Echinopsis: Is it a lost cause?

Post by cactushobbyman »

You are a little north of me, but the temps are close. I find my Echinopsis like more water than not. In clay pots I can water weekly and have no problems, but my soil is very fast drainage. In plastic pots every two weeks. Outside, every two weeks and most are in full sun. When mine looks like yours, I would put it in the greenhouse where the temps are reaching 105+ but receives only morning full sun and the rest of the day filter shade. I will place it on the north side, middle or bottom shelf. And there I leave it be and water when it starts to be almost completely dry. I find it can take some time to recover, but it will recover if you do little rather than more. I would take it out of the pot, use a pressure nozzle and blow off the roots, let it dry one day and re-pot. When I re-pot, my soil is damp enough to keep the dust down. With in a week the soil is dry enough to water it as if it was healthy. You will probably see pups before a big change in the original plant. :D
catlady
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Re: Echinopsis: Is it a lost cause?

Post by catlady »

Thank you all so, so very much for your help! The roots are very clean, so I will re-pot her in the morning instead of waiting another day. While I don't have access to a greenhouse, I don't have air conditioning, so it gets pretty toasty warm in here! lol :D

Now that I have her out of the pot, while the roots aren't growing all that great, she really does seem to have improved at least a little from when I first tried to rescue her, so hopefully she'll bounce back in the brighter window and with some better draining soil. I'm not worried if she stays pretty battered looking, it just gives her character (and reminds me to be more careful with caring for my plants!).

Thank you all again.
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