Let's grow some Melocactus!

Discuss repotting, soil, lighting, fertilizing, watering, etc. in this category.
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jp29
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Re: Let's grow some Melocactus!

Post by jp29 »

oldcat61 wrote:James - I have several melos with no ID. Do you feel it's important to know the exact variety or is the care the same? They don't have cephs yet, so I know it's hard to be sure. Thanks, I'm really enjoying this thread. Sue
Thank you, Sue. I give all my melos the same care. Precise nomenclature is not that important to me, Sue - I just enjoy my melos as interesting and beautiful plants. So I identify my plants as they say "sensu lato" - in the general sense.
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jp29
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Re: Let's grow some Melocactus!

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DaveW wrote:You pay to heat my greenhouse in winter James and I will grow Melocacti and Discocacti! :lol: ..........
I hear you Dave! As I remember the sunny clime of Nottingham (I had an uncle who lived in Derby and my best friend married a Nottingham girl - so I used to visit there often in my youth) that would be a costly venture. :roll: :!:
.......... I had not heard of Hildegard Nase as a seed supplier, so did a web search but only came up with this from a 1978 publication.

(your image)

Evidently she was wholesale only and may no longer be in business? ..........
You are one great web researcher and reporter, Dave! :) Yes, Hildegard was firm on only supplying the wholesale trade, but Dan Bach was a favorite of hers and used to buy very large quantities of seed from her (some of which he would give to me). I believe she had many sources for her very extensive seed stock - she herself was not a collector. I write all these references in the past tense because I think she passed away - if she is still alive she would be very old. I remember Dan telling me she was no longer in business some time ago.

Dan is in Phoenix today making plant deliveries. I will go out to his Nursery tomorrow (have a fine lunch with him) and get some definitive answers.

Edit correction:
I was hoping that it would be tomorrow, but I just remembered that Beverly and I will be going up to Phoenix to do our "new born great-grandparent thing" - I will go out to Dan's on Monday..
Last edited by jp29 on Thu Aug 07, 2014 7:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Steve Johnson
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Re: Let's grow some Melocactus!

Post by Steve Johnson »

Excellent posts, James -- thorough and very interesting! =D> The only thing I might chime in on is acidifying your water. So, a couple of questions for you:

1. How much vinegar do you add? (I believe that you've mentioned 1 tsp. per gallon elsewhere. Just wanted to verify.)

2. Are you able to test the pH of your water before and after acidification? If so, what method do you use?

While I note the fact that Dr. Wheeler is skeptical about acidification, more info about his reason(s) for the skepticism would be helpful. Whatever I can add to the conversation may be helpful too.
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jp29
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Re: Let's grow some Melocactus!

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Steve Johnson wrote:Excellent posts, James -- thorough and very interesting! =D> ..........

Thanks Steve. I am glad you chimed in because of your interest in Melocactus and also your employment of the "Buxbaumian" (is that a word?) approach to cultivation.
........... The only thing I might chime in on is acidifying your water. So, a couple of questions for you:

1. How much vinegar do you add? (I believe that you've mentioned 1 tsp. per gallon elsewhere. Just wanted to verify.)

2. Are you able to test the pH of your water before and after acidification? If so, what method do you use? ..........
Yes I do add about one teaspoonful per gallon (variable). I use a liquid pH indicator (visual method - I will post a photo of it when I can) to test my water and inorganic media. BTW, to test the latter pH I mix up a slurry of distilled water and growing medium and let it sit overnight before testing).
.......... While I note the fact that Dr. Wheeler is skeptical about acidification, more info about his reason(s) for the skepticism would be helpful. Whatever I can add to the conversation may be helpful too.
Well I just phoned him and that will be a topic for discussion at our next lunch get together (Jerald, Dan and me) - I was hoping that would be tomorrow, but Beverly and I will be going up to Phoenix to do our "new born great-grandparent thing". It is not easy to "capture" Jerald because he is so frequently out of town doing consultant work, but I will do my best to set-up a lunch early next week. I have a feeling that he thinks I am not being consistent enough in my testing methodology - we shall see.
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oldcat61
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Re: Let's grow some Melocactus!

Post by oldcat61 »

Thanks James - I will continue to just be happy they are growing. Only wanted to be sure there weren't exceptions to the general care tips. Here's one of my " unsures " Sue
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jp29
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Re: Let's grow some Melocactus!

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oldcat61 wrote:Thanks James - I will continue to just be happy they are growing. Only wanted to be sure there weren't exceptions to the general care tips. Here's one of my " unsures " Sue
Wow, Sue, that is some great spination on your melo! It is obviously a well-grown plant that looks like it is about ready to pop a cephalium. I am not very good at attributing juvenile melos, it is maybe Melocactus intortus? - or Melocactus pachyacanthus? Anyway, Sue, congratulations on growing it so well :!: =P~
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Brunãozinho
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Re: Let's grow some Melocactus!

Post by Brunãozinho »

Thanks for the links, Dave.
As you can notice also by seeing the field numbers details, both M.violaceus and M.ernestii have a very wide distribution in eastern Brazil.
It's quite interesting to see the many different forms that those wide distributed cacti have in habitat. I wondered how much are cultivation and genetics responsible for James' M. Violaceus being so tall. That M. ernestii on the second picture, interesting form and quite different from the ones I see here (I should do a topic on "cacti places" with some habitat pics when I get back to my pc).

Sorry for going off-topic now, but Ralph Martin's website could get you a bit confused when searching for brazilian species that occur in the state of Minas Gerais. Many of them are shown as collected in the state of Mato Grosso. I found it strange when I once searched for Uebelmannia field numbers and I was quite intrigued that someone could have claimed to have found them in that state. Now, seeing the Melocactus ernestii page, I notice the mistake is obviously because someone badly understood the acronym "MG" as being from Mato Grosso.
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Steve Johnson
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Re: Let's grow some Melocactus!

Post by Steve Johnson »

Wonderful discussion, and I'm happy to participate here!
jp29 wrote:Thanks Steve. I am glad you chimed in because of your interest in Melocactus and also your employment of the "Buxbaumian" (is that a word?) approach to cultivation.
I wonder if Dr. Buxbaum's book ever made it to the US when it was in print. If so, I have a feeling that the book was known among only a relative handful of American cactus growers. I was active with the L.A. Cactus & Succulent Society in the early 1970s, and the experienced hobbyists there who showed me the ropes were definitely of the old school -- either they didn't know about Buxbaum's practices or they dismissed him as a crackpot. Now here I am years later, a Buxbaumian and I didn't even know it!
jp29 wrote:I use a liquid pH indicator (visual method - I will post a photo of it when I can) to test my water and inorganic media. BTW, to test the latter pH I mix up a slurry of distilled water and growing medium and let it sit overnight before testing).
I believe what you're talking about is a colorimetric indicator dye kit. Easily available online and at hydroponic supply stores. Unfortunately we have a problem there. A little over 2 years ago, I did a fair amount of comparison testing with colorimetric indicators, pH test strips, and a digital pH meter. My meter of choice has been a Milwaukee Instruments pH 600 (rugged and very reliable, although it needs to be properly calibrated to maintain accuracy. No big deal, however, plus the meter is fairly inexpensive). Test strips are pretty much useless. Indicator kits test at a significantly lower pH compared with the meter. So I hate to tell you this, but -- 1 tsp. of vinegar in a gallon of your hard water is barely making a dent in neutralizing the bicarbonates.

Water quality reports are fine as far as they go, but they're only a snapshot that really doesn't tell us about what comes out of the tap. Since hardness fluctuates from time to time, I periodically test my tap water with the meter. I've found the results to be pretty consistent -- 7.6 in spring and fall, 7.9 in summer and winter. Right now my tap is reading 7.9. When I dilute my Dyna Gro All-Pro 7-7-7 (ah, I wish we had a fert like that in the old days!) at 1/2 tsp. per gallon, that drops the pH down to about 7. Then when I add 1 tbsp. of 5% white vinegar, I get a final pH of about 5.5. My optimum final pH range is 5.0-5.5, so even when the hardness of my tap water goes down to 7.6, I'll still be within that range (albeit on the low side) when I keep to the 1 tbsp. of vinegar.

To be honest, I've been assuming that my pumice/DG mix is pretty much pH-neutral. I haven't been all that interested to know anyway, but perhaps I should, and your slurry method never occured to me. But since you brought it up, my mind is now abuzz with curiosity. I'll try your method next week, then I'll be able to find out whether or not the mix has any appreciable effect on the pH once it has gotten saturated. I can't imagine acidifying any less, because all of my cacti have been thriving on the acidified water/fert regimen I follow. Should I acidify more? I won't do it unless a slurry test points me in that direction. However, I find this very interesting, so I'll post up the results of what I discover.
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DaveW
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Re: Let's grow some Melocactus!

Post by DaveW »

I would agree with Steve and James about tap water, it depends on whether it is from a single source or several are used. Long ago I used to know the Nottingham City Analyst (who was a cactophile) and he told me there were about 6 water sources used in Nottingham, from soft water boreholes to water from Lady Bower Dam in the limestone country of Derbyshire, plus which they used could vary throughout the day therefore some Nottinghamians got variable PH water during the day. Being up high in Mapperley we have our own hilltop reservoir where water has to be pumped up from Nottingham, therefore our water is well mixed before we get it, so fairly stable as regards PH.

However as James and Steve point out, just because one person adds one tablespoon of vinegar to their water does not mean that quantity is correct for your tap water, or if you have a variable supply like Nottingham even correct throughout the day. You need to test each batch you are acidifying for the amount of vinegar needed to attain the correct PH. That is unless you have found your water supply is from a stable source with always the same PH.

When testing potting soil by the "slurry" method you should really mix it with distilled water (the water from defrosting the fridge, dehumidifiers or topping up car batteries) otherwise the waters PH will influence the reading. "Bottled water" as suggested in the link below is not distilled water, but water from varying world sources with differing PH's:-

http://www.ehow.com/how_5769308_determi ... -soil.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Using rainwater is a lot less trouble. :D
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jp29
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Re: Let's grow some Melocactus!

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All very interesting stuff, Steve. We are on our our way to Phoenix right now so I cannot respond in detail to your last post - I will digest it on my Iphone as Beverly is driving. Let me just comment on a couple of things though:
Steve Johnson wrote:............ I wonder if Dr. Buxbaum's book ever made it to the US when it was in print. If so, I have a feeling that the book was known among only a relative handful of American cactus growers. I was active with the L.A. Cactus & Succulent Society in the early 1970s, and the experienced hobbyists there who showed me the ropes were definitely of the old school -- either they didn't know about Buxbaum's practices or they dismissed him as a crackpot ...........
I was President of the Mojave Desert Cactus Club in the mid-1960s (can't remember which years) and some members of our club used to occasionally swap-off informal get togethers with some of the LA Society members (Tegelberg's Nursery in Lucerne Valley for our venue - Johnson's Cactus Garden Nursery in Paramount for their's). I know some of us did sometimes discuss Buxbaum's book, or at least his approach to cultivating cacti - I bought his book when it was newly available here - I think about 1960.

Edit - Correction: I think I may be wrong about that. I have been reading my old Johnson's Cactus Garden's catalogs dated 1963 and 1965 and Buxbaum's book is not included in their very extensive book listings. So I think I bought my Buxbaum sometime after 1965. I guess we were actually discussing Backeberg versus Britton & Rose in our mid 1960s get-togethers -- that certainly was a hot topic then. I think the Buxbaum discussions came later.
jp29 wrote:I use a liquid pH indicator (visual method - I will post a photo of it when I can) to test my water and inorganic media ...........
Here is the pH test kit I am starting to use:

http://www.amazon.com/General-Hydroponi ... B000BNKWZY" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I have got to go ..........
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Re: Let's grow some Melocactus!

Post by oldcat61 »

James - one reason I really like the melo that I posted, is the way the spines look red when wet. Here's 2 "misty" shots; no sign of a ceph yet. Hard to ID - the habitat photos all look so gnarled & scarred. Sue
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jp29
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Re: Let's grow some Melocactus!

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oldcat61 wrote:James - one reason I really like the melo that I posted, is the way the spines look red when wet. Here's 2 "misty" shots ..........
I like that also, Sue - it is characteristic of several strongly spined melos.
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jp29
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Re: Let's grow some Melocactus!

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Picking up on my morning post, Steve:
Steve Johnson wrote:..........
jp29 wrote:I use a liquid pH indicator (visual method - I will post a photo of it when I can) to test my water and inorganic media. BTW, to test the latter pH I mix up a slurry of distilled water and growing medium and let it sit overnight before testing).
I believe what you're talking about is a colorimetric indicator dye kit. Easily available online and at hydroponic supply stores. Unfortunately we have a problem there. A little over 2 years ago, I did a fair amount of comparison testing with colorimetric indicators, pH test strips, and a digital pH meter. My meter of choice has been a Milwaukee Instruments pH 600 (rugged and very reliable, although it needs to be properly calibrated to maintain accuracy. No big deal, however, plus the meter is fairly inexpensive). Test strips are pretty much useless. Indicator kits test at a significantly lower pH compared with the meter ...........

Extract from CACTUS CULTURE BASED ON BIOLOGY - Dr. Franz Buxbaum (translated by Vera Higgins), Blandford Press, 1958.

Chapter 4 - Page 38:

" .......... The most exact measurements of soil reaction values are obtained electrometrically and are very elaborate, but it is sufficient for our purpose to use a colorimetric method that any child could carry out in a second .........."

(relating to soil reaction and the chemical requirements of the soil) - and he goes on to illustrate the slurry method of testing the soil pH using the colorimetric tester in fig 7 which occupies all of page 39.
Steve Johnson wrote:.......... To be honest, I've been assuming that my pumice/DG mix is pretty much pH-neutral. I haven't been all that interested to know anyway, but perhaps I should, and your slurry method never occured to me. But since you brought it up, my mind is now abuzz with curiosity. I'll try your method next week ..........
Not my method, Steve, but Dr. Buxbaum's. It is important to know the pH of your soil media when it is saturated with the water/nutrient solution you employ, with reasonable accuracy - not just the water pH.
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greenknight
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Re: Let's grow some Melocactus!

Post by greenknight »

I planted some Melocactus matanzanus, but the seed didn't sprout. :( Oh, well, maybe next year.
Spence :mrgreen:
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jp29
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Re: Let's grow some Melocactus!

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Melocactus borhidii (synonym {forma} of Melocactus harlowii)

Rare Cuban Melocactus with a striking form and magnificent spination

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