With about 100 species i'd like to divide the cacti in different groups because in nature they live in very different ecological zone's. Now all the cacti get the same treatment.but some need more water and some can be grown a litte warmer.
Splitting the species in North American and South American isn't enough i think. For South America 1 have found 3 different regions(the Bahia region in north east of brazil, The eastern side of the andes(Argentinia, Peru, Bolivia), and Rio Grande del Sul(South eastern Brazil above Urugay).
But i don't know if you can make a good arrangement by selecting on geographical origin.
So i can have a little help on this.
I have a list of some of the names but there not all the correct.
Austrocephalocereus dybowskii
Austrocephalocereus purpureus
Brasilicactus haselbergii
Cereus validus
Cleistocactus strausii
Coleocephalocereus goebelianus
Echinocactus grusoni
Echinopsis leucantha
Eriocactus claviceps
Eriocactus leninghausii
Eriocactus magnificus
Eriocactus warasii
Espostoa mirabilis
Facheiroa pilosa
Facheiroa squamosa
Facheiroa ulei
Gymnocalycium friedrichii
Gymnocalycium mihanovichii
Isolatocereus dumortieri
Lemaireocereus pruinosus
Mammillariabocazana
Mammillaria bombycina
Mammillaria camptotricha
Mammillaria carmenae
Mammillaria crinita
Mammillaria ernestii
Mammillaria hahniana
Mammillaria leptacantha
Mammillaria matudae
Mammillaria microhelia
Mammillaria schiedeana
Mammillaria spinosisima
Mammillaria toluca sin pico
Marginatocereus marginatus
Myrtilocactus geometrizan
Notocactus herteri
Notocactus scopa
Oreocereus celcianuns
Pachycereus pecten-aboriginum
Pachycereus pringlei
Pilocereus azulensis
Pilocereus azureus
Pilocereus braunii
Pilocereus chrysacantus
Pilocereus chrysostele
Pilocereus danyellensis
Pilocereus glaucescens
Pilocereus menesianus
Pilocereus odilensis
Pilocereus pachycladus
Pilosocereus piauhyensis
Polaskia chende
Polaskia chichipe
Stephanocereus leucosthele
Stetsonya coryne
Trichocereus bridgesii
Trichocereus camarguensis
Trichocereus candicans
Trichocereus narvaecensis
Trichocereus peruvianus
Trichocereus spachianus
Vatricania guentheri
Weberbauerocereus winterianus
Dividing cacti in groups with there own requirements
Dividing cacti in groups with there own requirements
Ook al klinkt het raar, als het rijmt is het waar.
Great list, you must have some lovely plants. Nice to see some of the Facheiroas in cultivation, not very common here yet in the US collections, I don't think.
I don't know specific growing requirements for many of the plants you list, as I haven't tried them in cultivation. My experience has been to combine regional/geographical cycles with a range of other factors in cultivation, such as plastic versus clay pots, soil based mix versus commercial mix, age of the plant, etc.
The only real distinction in my collection right now is between Chihuahuan plants that I endeavor to keep dry and cold all winter and Sonoran and Mohave plants that get winter rains. When the growing season is on I pretty much treat all the plants the same.
peterb
I don't know specific growing requirements for many of the plants you list, as I haven't tried them in cultivation. My experience has been to combine regional/geographical cycles with a range of other factors in cultivation, such as plastic versus clay pots, soil based mix versus commercial mix, age of the plant, etc.
The only real distinction in my collection right now is between Chihuahuan plants that I endeavor to keep dry and cold all winter and Sonoran and Mohave plants that get winter rains. When the growing season is on I pretty much treat all the plants the same.
peterb
Zone 9
Hi Bram!
Interesting subject... I think one other factor to consider is the size/type of plant. A columnar from Baja California and a columnar from Brazil may just have closer needs to each other than a Melocactus and a Pilosocereus from a nearby area in Brazil.
Also, as Peter often points out. In cultivation, we don't often want to mimic the natural environment too closely as the mortality rate in the wild is much higher than we hope for. Otherwise, in the grown from seed section we would be posting "sowed 200,000 seeds, 5 made it to two years old!"
So I think your idea is a good one, but may need to be split up more on each type and what others have learned about conditions through trial and error.
Eg. Mamms prefer X conditions, but species A and B are exceptions that need less water or a different soil, etc.
Does that make sense?
Interesting subject... I think one other factor to consider is the size/type of plant. A columnar from Baja California and a columnar from Brazil may just have closer needs to each other than a Melocactus and a Pilosocereus from a nearby area in Brazil.
Also, as Peter often points out. In cultivation, we don't often want to mimic the natural environment too closely as the mortality rate in the wild is much higher than we hope for. Otherwise, in the grown from seed section we would be posting "sowed 200,000 seeds, 5 made it to two years old!"
So I think your idea is a good one, but may need to be split up more on each type and what others have learned about conditions through trial and error.
Eg. Mamms prefer X conditions, but species A and B are exceptions that need less water or a different soil, etc.
Does that make sense?
All Cacti are succulents, but not all succulents are Cacti
Thanks for the replies!
Yeah i am totally aware of that. Nature will never provides a perfect condition for plants.
But I see that there is a big difference in climate in the different parts America. For example, the Caatinga type forest of north east Brazil is very very different from the arid Chaco in Argentina and Bolivia.
I think there is a lot of difference in soil type, rain, seasons, minimum and maximum temperatures and maybe in fertilization.
But i can't find much specific information about the places where cacti grow. They can live in a rather wet climate but if they only stand on the driest places. And some species grow in the shade and some can grow fully exposed.
I'm not shure if i want to divide the cacti in groups based on biogeographical data, or on different needs(wich wil be much harder to examine, but is likelier to have succes)
Yeah i am totally aware of that. Nature will never provides a perfect condition for plants.
But I see that there is a big difference in climate in the different parts America. For example, the Caatinga type forest of north east Brazil is very very different from the arid Chaco in Argentina and Bolivia.
I think there is a lot of difference in soil type, rain, seasons, minimum and maximum temperatures and maybe in fertilization.
But i can't find much specific information about the places where cacti grow. They can live in a rather wet climate but if they only stand on the driest places. And some species grow in the shade and some can grow fully exposed.
I'm not shure if i want to divide the cacti in groups based on biogeographical data, or on different needs(wich wil be much harder to examine, but is likelier to have succes)
Ook al klinkt het raar, als het rijmt is het waar.
I am constantly moving plants about.
At this time of year they are grouped by cold hardiness so that sensitive ones can be protected if we get a late frost, while other plants grow really well with cool nights. Some are still protected because they don't even like the 1C-3C nights we are getting. Everybody is crowded to get the most sun.
Soon, some plants will have to hide from the long hours of June sun and other plants will go into a cold frame or huddle by the vents to keep cool. Some will stay in the corner for maximum heat.
Your classification is a good start. You'll learn more by watching your plants. You'll find Caribbean and even some tropical Mexican plants that are like your Bahia group. I find many of the high Andean species like similar conditions, even high altitude tropical species like Oreocereus and some of the Matucanas. There are also the Patagonians and Chileans. Watch out for the North American plants that are adapted to summer drought, from California, particularly the west of Arizona, and neighbouring parts of Mexico especially Baja. These plants are generally considered difficult, but at least some of the problem is that people insist on watering them in summer when they are dormant. Plants from further east like Texas, and much of northern Mexico, are far better adapted to rainfall throughout summer and dry winters. Columnars are nearly always full sun plants, many globulars like a little shade. Dense white spines usually means maximum light, bare green bodies are often understory plants.
My last tip is to look at the roots. I grow mostly smaller globulars and I find that a thick solid taproot (eg. Ariocarpus) tends to indicate a plant adapted to long drought periods, but probably requires a solid drenching when it is watered (often there are very few feeder roots). Tuberous fleshy roots (eg. some Copiapoas) prefer more regular water or the roots will dessicate and probably die, but they also don't like to be waterlogged. Extensive fibrous root systems are adapted to classic thunderstorm every few weeks watering.
At this time of year they are grouped by cold hardiness so that sensitive ones can be protected if we get a late frost, while other plants grow really well with cool nights. Some are still protected because they don't even like the 1C-3C nights we are getting. Everybody is crowded to get the most sun.
Soon, some plants will have to hide from the long hours of June sun and other plants will go into a cold frame or huddle by the vents to keep cool. Some will stay in the corner for maximum heat.
Your classification is a good start. You'll learn more by watching your plants. You'll find Caribbean and even some tropical Mexican plants that are like your Bahia group. I find many of the high Andean species like similar conditions, even high altitude tropical species like Oreocereus and some of the Matucanas. There are also the Patagonians and Chileans. Watch out for the North American plants that are adapted to summer drought, from California, particularly the west of Arizona, and neighbouring parts of Mexico especially Baja. These plants are generally considered difficult, but at least some of the problem is that people insist on watering them in summer when they are dormant. Plants from further east like Texas, and much of northern Mexico, are far better adapted to rainfall throughout summer and dry winters. Columnars are nearly always full sun plants, many globulars like a little shade. Dense white spines usually means maximum light, bare green bodies are often understory plants.
My last tip is to look at the roots. I grow mostly smaller globulars and I find that a thick solid taproot (eg. Ariocarpus) tends to indicate a plant adapted to long drought periods, but probably requires a solid drenching when it is watered (often there are very few feeder roots). Tuberous fleshy roots (eg. some Copiapoas) prefer more regular water or the roots will dessicate and probably die, but they also don't like to be waterlogged. Extensive fibrous root systems are adapted to classic thunderstorm every few weeks watering.
--ian
I'd like to emphasize one of Ian's main points, just because it took several years to really sink in for me and I figure maybe folks can bypass my own hard-headedness.
I'm not sure if this applies to South American desert cacti or not, but I know through trial and (mostly) error that there are essentially five groups of North American plants.
Group one: Chihuahuan desert natives. These plants prefer or require a cold, dry winter dormancy, a rather wet late winter to late spring/midsummer growing frenzy and sometimes a relatively long summer dormancy (only in areas where nighttime temps remain above roughly 70F). They actually prefer nice cool nights all summer. Most cactus cultivation literature refers to these plants. The vast majority of plants known as "difficult" are actually just from other regions. (or highly edaphic Chihuahuans). Many of the common Sonoran plants adjust easily to Chihuahuan conditions and vice versa, also obscuring the marked differences between the two deserts.
Group two: Sonoran desert natives. These plants prefer a slightly (low of 27F) to significantly (low of 35F) warmer winter with fairly regular watering from December-early March. Spring is often the driest time of the year in habitat but I'm noticing that the plants keep chugging along with regular waterings anyway, and continue to put on impressive growth and flowers in the wild, especially after a wet winter. These plants also seem to have adapted to high night temps and rain, as summer "monsoons" are quite common at times when the night temps stay well above 70F. There *is* a winter dormancy, but the plants don't prefer the bone dry cold conditions of the Chihuahuan plants. There also seems to be a summer dormancy for many, but the plants aren't bothered by water at this time.
Group three: Mohave desert plants. The main difference here is some of these plants grow in areas with *5 inches of rain or less* every year. Some of them have adapted to cultivation with far more water, for example Opuntia basilaris, Echinocereus mojavensis, etc. Some, however, continue to grow (and even flower) all summer under almost absolutely bone dry, baking heat conditions. Echinomastus johnsonii, Echinocactus polycephalus and Sclerocactus polyancistrus are examples. These plants, put simply, will die if given more water in the summer. The wettest months on average are Dec-Feb, when of course it's also the coolest. The plants show no signs of growth at all over these wet months, but they do fatten up. This period is important in maintaining the health of the plants in preparation for the dust dry summer. There are brief intense summer storms, but the soil, generally extremely poor, probably dries out in less than 48 hours.
Group four: Great Basin plants. These plants have the requirement of two distinct dormancies, both summer and winter. The above ground growing/flowering season is very short indeed, from late winter to mid-spring. The growth can be amazing however, during this short time, and I have yet to overwater these plants when they are active. Too much heat in the summer really stresses them. The more cold the better in winter. In cultivation, most do better with cold and somewhat dry, in spite of a significant amount of moisture in habitat. My theory on this is that most of the moisture (snow) evaporates and dries quickly in habitat. Fall is important for root development and flower bud formation. The buds often form in fall and then sit through the winter.
Group five: high altitude/high latitude/grassland plants. These are found within all of the above regions, as well as completely outside of deserts. Sometimes there are even clones of low desert plants that grow very well in these mountainous regions. Generally, it seems to me that most of these species do fine under the "Chihuahuan" conditions; hot and wet spring and summer, cold and dry winter.
Of course, there are also plants that boldly cross the above boundaries, within limits, and do all right under varied conditions. Echinomastus intertextus, for example, which thrives in both the northern reaches of the Chihuahuan desert near El Paso and Las Cruces as well as doing fairly well in the savannah of southeastern AZ, at 5,000 feet.
Examples from all of the five groups that absolutely require even more specialized treatment are few, and again, tend to fall under the "this plant is really hard to grow" category. Peniocereus greggii, for example, absolutely requires the heaviest, poorest, most unlikely potting mix you can imagine and despite extensive winter rains in habitat definitely prefers it dry, especially if grown in a pot. But these particular exceptions I'm still learning about, and generally once I know the basic region of a plant it's easier for me to make relatively minor adjustments toward successful growing.
okay...that turned out to be pretty long....sorry!
peterb
I'm not sure if this applies to South American desert cacti or not, but I know through trial and (mostly) error that there are essentially five groups of North American plants.
Group one: Chihuahuan desert natives. These plants prefer or require a cold, dry winter dormancy, a rather wet late winter to late spring/midsummer growing frenzy and sometimes a relatively long summer dormancy (only in areas where nighttime temps remain above roughly 70F). They actually prefer nice cool nights all summer. Most cactus cultivation literature refers to these plants. The vast majority of plants known as "difficult" are actually just from other regions. (or highly edaphic Chihuahuans). Many of the common Sonoran plants adjust easily to Chihuahuan conditions and vice versa, also obscuring the marked differences between the two deserts.
Group two: Sonoran desert natives. These plants prefer a slightly (low of 27F) to significantly (low of 35F) warmer winter with fairly regular watering from December-early March. Spring is often the driest time of the year in habitat but I'm noticing that the plants keep chugging along with regular waterings anyway, and continue to put on impressive growth and flowers in the wild, especially after a wet winter. These plants also seem to have adapted to high night temps and rain, as summer "monsoons" are quite common at times when the night temps stay well above 70F. There *is* a winter dormancy, but the plants don't prefer the bone dry cold conditions of the Chihuahuan plants. There also seems to be a summer dormancy for many, but the plants aren't bothered by water at this time.
Group three: Mohave desert plants. The main difference here is some of these plants grow in areas with *5 inches of rain or less* every year. Some of them have adapted to cultivation with far more water, for example Opuntia basilaris, Echinocereus mojavensis, etc. Some, however, continue to grow (and even flower) all summer under almost absolutely bone dry, baking heat conditions. Echinomastus johnsonii, Echinocactus polycephalus and Sclerocactus polyancistrus are examples. These plants, put simply, will die if given more water in the summer. The wettest months on average are Dec-Feb, when of course it's also the coolest. The plants show no signs of growth at all over these wet months, but they do fatten up. This period is important in maintaining the health of the plants in preparation for the dust dry summer. There are brief intense summer storms, but the soil, generally extremely poor, probably dries out in less than 48 hours.
Group four: Great Basin plants. These plants have the requirement of two distinct dormancies, both summer and winter. The above ground growing/flowering season is very short indeed, from late winter to mid-spring. The growth can be amazing however, during this short time, and I have yet to overwater these plants when they are active. Too much heat in the summer really stresses them. The more cold the better in winter. In cultivation, most do better with cold and somewhat dry, in spite of a significant amount of moisture in habitat. My theory on this is that most of the moisture (snow) evaporates and dries quickly in habitat. Fall is important for root development and flower bud formation. The buds often form in fall and then sit through the winter.
Group five: high altitude/high latitude/grassland plants. These are found within all of the above regions, as well as completely outside of deserts. Sometimes there are even clones of low desert plants that grow very well in these mountainous regions. Generally, it seems to me that most of these species do fine under the "Chihuahuan" conditions; hot and wet spring and summer, cold and dry winter.
Of course, there are also plants that boldly cross the above boundaries, within limits, and do all right under varied conditions. Echinomastus intertextus, for example, which thrives in both the northern reaches of the Chihuahuan desert near El Paso and Las Cruces as well as doing fairly well in the savannah of southeastern AZ, at 5,000 feet.
Examples from all of the five groups that absolutely require even more specialized treatment are few, and again, tend to fall under the "this plant is really hard to grow" category. Peniocereus greggii, for example, absolutely requires the heaviest, poorest, most unlikely potting mix you can imagine and despite extensive winter rains in habitat definitely prefers it dry, especially if grown in a pot. But these particular exceptions I'm still learning about, and generally once I know the basic region of a plant it's easier for me to make relatively minor adjustments toward successful growing.
okay...that turned out to be pretty long....sorry!
peterb
Zone 9
-
lordarutha
- Posts: 803
- Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2008 8:58 pm
- Location: Very Sunny Weston super Mare ,UK (Near Bristol)
I came across this page which describes these four regions of North America and includes a map which might help you to visualise where they are.
--ian
but yes, I'll be glad to, and if anyone has anything at all to add or subtract, please let me know.