Pronunciation

[fanaticactus]

After collecting cacti all these years I think it's time I learned the most accepted pronunciation of 'glochid'. I've tried looking it up in many sources including the dictionary, my cactus reference books (none have a pronunciation list) and online. Is it 1) 'glock id' or 2) 'glow kid' ? Thanks.

[DaveW]

W. T. Stearn in his book Botanical Latin says botanical Latin is a written rather than a spoken language, but we have to try and speak it sometimes to communicate, but as long as we are understood it does not matter.

Botanical Latin has now ev0lved as a language of it's own, often somewhat divorced from classical Latin. Botanists may have a job understanding a plant description written by a classical Latin scholar and vice versa. Therefore you will find different pronunciations in different countries and among different groups, so none can be called the definitive pronunciation.

In spite of what present day Latin scholars may pretend, since there were no audio recordings at the time nobody knows how the Romans or Greeks spoke, it is all only guesswork and glochid has Greek roots anyway I think. Just like all large empires nobody throughout it spoke it identically, most had regional accents and different pronunciations. Since it was before the time of audio recordings of original Latin pronunciation, without such backward references to correct it the language of even classical Latin scholars will have gradually changed generation to generation. Just as if a person goes deaf they have no audio clues to adjust their pronunciation to those around them and, so it gradually diverges. No spoken languages are immutable, even supposedly dead ones. If the ancient Romans came back modern Classical Latin would probably sound just as mispronounced to them as botanical Latin does to present Classical scholars.

Anyway here's 8 versions of glochid:-

https://www.howtopronounce.com/glochids/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Plus another:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbJyShwKf5M" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[iann]

I pronounce it 'glock id', but the latin root has a long "o" so I'm probably wrong. Botanical latin is pretty much made up by whoever spoke it last, so I wouldn't worry too much.

[A. Dean Stock]

Iann, that is how I pronounce the word as well and I'm working with Opuntia taxonomy. As DaveW pointed out, there is no "correct way" so it is just "usage" and that varies a great deal. I think that glock id is fine and it doesn't matter what classical Latin scholars think!!
Dean

[DaveW]

If I had even known my own language was so difficult I am sure I would have never bothered to learn it:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7SWETadMn0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The southerners will always try and insert letters that are not there like putting an "R" into bath and piano, as "barth" and "piarno". The Scots use a different "R" pronunciation to the English and as they say "you can always tell a Scottish girl by the way she rolls her R's".

[majcka]

If I had even known my own language was so difficult I am sure I would have never bothered to learn it:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7SWETadMn0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The southerners will always try and insert letters that are not there like putting an "R" into bath and piano, as "barth" and "piarno". The Scots use a different "R" pronunciation to the English and as they say "you can always tell a Scottish girl by the way she rolls her R's".

If you Island people on't understand each other, so how can I????

[fanaticactus]

This is all very interesting to this retired language teacher. I feel better now knowing there's apparently no 'official' or 'correct' way to pronounce glochid. I've been pronouncing it 'glock id', so I guess there's no need to change now. Thanks for your input and--especially to DaveW for those links to various versions of pronunciation most of which sounded identical to me.

[DaveW]

With botanical Latin you eventually develop "group speak" (as with any language) if you are part of a group like a local cactus club where you meet together frequently. However go to another club in another area or overseas and you notice the difference in their pronunciation. I suppose that applies to all language since that's how local dialects are born. Possibly in this age of international audio communication these different language pronunciations have been slowed down, or smoothed out, but no language is fixed it continues to ev0lve and the old pronunciations only gradually fade away as we older generation die off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QKCzo6rOAo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[jorgeq]

This is an interesting question, fanaticactus. I've never heard of anyone taking a course in "Botanical Latin." I learned Classical Latin. I've been only collecting cacti for a couple of years and I pronounce the genus/species names of cacti more like the Germans with some exceptions. DaveW's comments are probably right. The Classical Latin I learned uses the same vowel system of Spanish (Castellano in Europe; I'm Mexican-American) and Italian. If you're a monolingual Anglophone, I would say take your pick of "glock id" or "glow kid." English has one of the most variant vowel systems between its various dialects. You probably can't go wrong. In Spanish, we say "gloquidio." The "o" in Latin, Italian, and Spanish would correspond to the "o" in "glow kid." In the end, what matters is that you're understood. It probably doesn't matter which way you say it. People will understand you by context.

An aside, in the Mexican Spanish dialect we use a more common word for glochid, "ahuate," to refer to both glochids or as an expression (idiom) for people who are pests or bugging/bothering you. Ahuate is from the Náhuatl word "ahuatl," which means "spine." Perhaps, we need to start referring to people are being general pains or giving us a hard time as "glochids."

[DaveW]

W. T. Stearn in his book "Botanical Latin", often considered the most authoritative work on the subject (all 566 pages of it!) says:-

"In English speaking countries there exist two main systems, the traditional English pronunciation generally used by gardeners and botanists and the "reformed" or "restored" academic pronunciation adopted by classical scholars as presenting a reasonably close approximation to the actual sounds of the language as spoken by educated Romans. This academic pronunciation comes closer to the usual Latin pronunciation of Continental people than does the conventional English pronunciation."

But he says elsewhere, botanical and medical Latin have tended to develop as distinct languages in their own right by their users and have tended to move away from classical Latin.

[A. Dean Stock]

My old book by Stern is still a good reference and I follow it for many things. Botanical Latin varies quite a bit in this country and terms for cactus morphology and taxonomy vary a great deal depending on what part of the country you are from.
Dean

[fanaticactus]

Since 'glock-id' seems to have by far more votes than 'glow-kid', that's what I'll be using. Glad to know I was kind of correct all along.

[majcka]

'glow-kid'

This one sounds to me like 'A kid that shines.' But then again I'm no English speaker nor am I a Latin one.

[fanaticactus]

'glow-kid'

This one sounds to me like 'A kid that shines.' But then again I'm no English speaker nor am I a Latin one.

That's EXACTLY what it sounds like to me, too, Maja!