Parodia Hybrids?

[Shane]

A couple of my Parodias flowered a few weeks ago and it made me wonder why you never see hybrids of the genus. Are they difficult to hybridize, is there nothing to be gained from hybridization or is there some other reason?

[teo]

Do you include Notocactus in Parodia ?

[Shane]

Do you include Notocactus in Parodia ?

Yes, Notocactus and Eriocactus. I couldn't find any real evidence of hybrids of any of them

[teo]

I have produced some seeds from various Parodia/Noto species. Since I usually only have one of each species (leninghausii, magnifica, roseoluteus, scopa...) I try to cross-pollinate whenever two or more are in bloom at the same time. Usually it produces fruits with seeds that are (seemingly) viable. Here is one (roseoluteus + unknown) in a 6 cm pot. (I did not record the father )

DSC_5240-c.JPG (48.83 KiB) Viewed 3711 times

[Shane]

I really like the spines and form of your hybrid. A very nice plant

Since I usually only have one of each species (leninghausii, magnifica, roseoluteus, scopa...) I try to cross-pollinate whenever two or more are in bloom at the same time

That's actually what got me thinking about this topic. I tried to cross my P. werneri (N. uebelmannianus) with my P. buiningii. I got two fruits on the werneri (and 0-2 on the on the buiningii, can't tell yet). I'm hoping they're hybrids and not self pollination. For what it's worth, both plants seemed resistant to self pollination for whatever reason

Also, I had a thought that maybe the reason we don't see Parodia hybrids in cultivation is because Parodia don't offset much. So getting a good hybrid and cloning it might be more trouble than it's worth(?)

[ElieEstephane]

In my experience they hybridize very easily (specially the eriocactus part of the genus). I donate most of the seeds i get so i don't het much followup on what came up.
A good portion of the plants we buy commercially, specially from Holland, are hybrids to some extent.
I see no problem with propagating hybrids since you can graft plants to large fast growing stock (polaskia, myrtillocactus, trichocereus...) and get commercial quantities in a year or two depending on how big your operation is and how much time you are willing to spend, that is if the resulting plant is attractive and sellable.

[Shane]

In my experience they hybridize very easily (specially the eriocactus part of the genus)

That's good to know. That gives me hope I've produced hybrid seed. For reference, Eriocactus includes the following species (from Wikipedia):
Parodia leninghausii
Parodia magnifica
Parodia nigrispina
Parodia schumanniana
Parodia schumanniana subsp. schumanniana
Parodia schumanniana subsp. claviceps
Parodia warasii
(Many of you already know this, but I didn't before I looked it up)

I see no problem with propagating hybrids since you can graft plants to large fast growing stock (polaskia, myrtillocactus, trichocereus...) and get commercial quantities in a year or two depending on how big your operation is and how much time you are willing to spend, that is if the resulting plant is attractive and sellable

It's not that it's difficult or problematic, just less commercially practical than growing from seed or offsets, at least here in the states where labor intensive propagation strategies are costly. But to your point this still leaves the question of why growers that do use grafting (growers in places where labor is cheaper) have apparently produced no Parodia hybrids worth propagating

[DWDogwood]

I often wonder why there are 60 different named species under the umbrella of P. microsperma. Many could be hybrids occurring naturally, but I don’t know the territory of habitat so geographic differences might be enough to separate individual populations of the same larger species.

If I were contemplating hybrids, I would focus on making the great spination of certain super slow P. horridas

6C7759A0-1AA2-47C6-81FC-000EEB8C58E8.jpeg (225.97 KiB) Viewed 3653 times

utilize a larger robust growth of something like a P. culpinensis

766C9FF2-301A-400D-B83F-35FB9C05D340.jpeg (221.87 KiB) Viewed 3653 times

[DWDogwood]

But then you’d probably end up with something looking quite like P. cabracorralensis, so what would be the point?

F24D54C0-8671-4CBE-B29D-66C0055DF10D.jpeg (204.26 KiB) Viewed 3653 times

[DaveW]

As you may gather I am anti cactus hybrids. There are enough so called species in the Cactaceae without adding more. Hybridity is one of the main problems in our hobby since many plants in cultivation under species names are probably hybrids from people setting their own seeds having not protected against open pollination in a mixed collection.

OK if plants are distributed as hybrids, but often unnamed ones when the collector packs up get species names attached to them. That is why many serious collectors prefer collected seed to that produced even by so called reputable seed firms due to the risk of unintentional hybridity.

Take a lesson from the Rose Breeders, you need to raise thousands of seedlings from various crosses to get even one that is worthwhile and better than anything seen before. Look at Orchid Cacti or the so called Epiphyllum's, numerous names for plants that look virtually no different to those gone before and that is named ones, let alone all the unnamed ones also circulating.

How often does a rose grower now come out with really different rose? Most are just minor variation of old ones with a new name so they sell to those who must have the latest named varieties.

Off my rant against horticultural hybrid cacti now! Please only hybridise Other Succulents since I don't grow those! Why try and "Gild the Lilly" anyway when there are so many attractive natural species anyway?

[Shane]

Something Dave said might offer the best explanation:

Most are just minor variation of old ones with a new name so they sell to those who must have the latest named varieties

I think the people who just want to create new hybrids focus on already very hybridized plants since they know there's a market for it/ somebody will take it seriously even if it's exactly the same as half a dozen others

I'm sure Parodia has the potential for interesting hybrids, but I think growers will stay focused on making endless Echinopsis / Epiplyllum / Astrophytum hybrids of dubious value because they're known to be marketable

And don't worry Dave, if I make any Parodia hybrids, I'll keep them to myself so I don't contaminate anything
(In all seriousness though, I wouldn't trade/give away/sell open pollinated seed without disclosing it as such and of course I wouldn't do that with hybrids either)