Does my Astrophytum have a problem?

[Steve Johnson]

Back in June, I purchased an Astrophytum asterias. It was in a small collection which, unfortunately was exposed to full sun for about 3 weeks before I was able to put up shade cloth. My cacti have been under a shade cloth enclosure ever since. My asterias started out with a nice, uniform green color. Then oddly enough after it went under the shade cloth, it took on a somewhat different look. Here's the way the asterias looks now as it has been for about 4 months:


Did my asterias get sunburned? If so, is it permanent? If it is permanent, should I take any precautions? This plant is only 1 1/4" in size, so I'm sure it could outgrow sunburn damage over time. My concern really is just to know if there's any particular care needed. By the way -- cactus mix from the California Cactus center added in with 25% pumice, according to recommendation on Astrophytums. Watered every week during spring and summer, every 2 weeks in October, then kept dry over winter.

Another concern I have about the asterias is that I couldn't see any growth over the summer. I know that under my care only since June maybe wasn't enough time to notice anything one would see. Just something I wanted to think about, though.

Thanks so much!

Steve

[iann]

Looks like it might have lost its roots. They do that easily.

[Steve Johnson]

Looks like it might have lost its roots. They do that easily.

Ah, I didn't see that one coming. Now that you mention it, I just pulled on the asterias enough to feel if the roots seemed to be established. Nope, I'm afraid root loss is the case. Guess there's nothing more I can do over winter except keep it dry. Is there a decent chance that the roots will re-establish during the growing season? Or would it be better to start out with a new asterias in April?

Thanks!

[iann]

Dry it out thoroughly, remove any completely dead roots, and it should grow new ones in the spring.

[mughal113]

I have rooted several asterias offsets/degrafts, 8 so far to be exact. Have lost none and find it pretty easy. The plant must have calloused over, dried in your case as Iann indicated. The key for me has been: keep the potting mix slightly moist and just place the plant over it- dont bury it in. Give it a nice thick gravel collar, avoid watering, keep in indirect/weak light and forget about it for a month or so.

[Steve Johnson]

Thanks, Ian and Mughal. I'll follow your advice and see if I can bring my asterias back. If you don't mind, I'd like to ask a couple of follow-up questions:

1. The growing season here in Los Angeles will start at the beginning of April. If the roots do come back, how long would they take to properly re-establish? In the event my asterias effort fails, I'll need to buy a new one from the California Cactus Center, but only when it's apparent that the old asterias just didn't make it.

2. Many years ago, I used to gently pull up on my cacti to see whether or not their roots seemed to be well established in their pots. I'd do this maybe 2-3 times a year. I could always tell if I had a cactus that seemed to be healthy, but was hanging on by just a few roots. Would there be anything wrong with giving my collection a gentle tug occasionally as long as I don't end up disturbing them too much?

Thanks again!

Steve

[daiv]

Mughal has good advice. I would stress the "avoid water" part. You will be tempted to do it, but you must wait!

[Steve Johnson]

Mughal has good advice. I would stress the "avoid water" part. You will be tempted to do it, but you must wait!

Over the years I've learned the virtue of patience, so I'm taking the advice I'm getting here to heart.

It took longer than I wanted, but last Sunday I finally put the asterias into its fresh, dry potting mix. Here's what it looked like after it came out of the old soil, which was dry but had dead roots (looks kinda sad, huh?):

Here's the pot with that fresh, dry new mix:

My winter shelter is not totally rainproof along the front section of the plant bench. However, I came up with the idea of a tall clear plastic container that goes right over the pot. When there's rain, the asterias stays dry. When the rain is over, I take the container off, and the asterias is not being smothered by improper ventilation. If this works to address the rain issue, then maybe my asterias will actually make it through the winter. In fact, if it's a good idea, I'll find containers for any other cacti that really need to stay dry in case even a little rain could be problematic. I think managing the small collection I have should be easy enough. Hope it does the job!

I have a follow-up question that really bothers me. I suspect that the asterias has been losing its roots for quite some time. When I discovered a small flower bud, it obviously didn't go far, which I have to take as a symptom of the root loss. I was letting the water soak through, once a week from June to the end of September, then every two weeks in October. It appears that I was overwatering, so when did I make the mistake? Watering in October was clearly part of it, and I could use some advice on the appropriate amount of watering as it pertains to daytime climate conditions in spring and summer.

Thanks so much for your help!

[hoteidoc]

Thanks from an observer of this thread. I've have an asterias that I've gone thru this the last 2 winters. I thought it was root rot, but never saw a tear @ neck d/t rot. So I replanted in Summer & come Nov/Dec -- same ol, same ol. Right now it's pulled out, sitting in the pot because I just didn't have the heart to toss -- even tho I knew if it was rot, I should! But the discussion & the pix are exactly what's going on! I'm definitely a newbie, but was always aware roots were an issue. But I'd still be branded as heavy-handed with the H2O, so I assumed I'd done it in! I've also decdided to try growing seed, because Astrophytum is constantly listed as an easy germination! That way I'd get a better feel for the plant & its roots.

[Steve Johnson]

Thanks from an observer of this thread. I've have an asterias that I've gone thru this the last 2 winters. I thought it was root rot, but never saw a tear @ neck d/t rot. So I replanted in Summer & come Nov/Dec -- same ol, same ol. Right now it's pulled out, sitting in the pot because I just didn't have the heart to toss -- even tho I knew if it was rot, I should! But the discussion & the pix are exactly what's going on! I'm definitely a newbie, but was always aware roots were an issue. But I'd still be branded as heavy-handed with the H2O, so I assumed I'd done it in! I've also decdided to try growing seed, because Astrophytum is constantly listed as an easy germination! That way I'd get a better feel for the plant & its roots.

Yeah, fellow newbie here, but I enjoy going on the journey to learn from the more experienced members on the forum.

When my A. asterias lost its roots, I assumed that rot could be a problem. However, Ian is pretty well up on things, so I was surprised when he said that he didn't find them to be rot-prone. When I took the asterias out (with what was left of the roots), there was no sign of rot, and it's staying on a strict dry-soil-only regimen until I can chance it with a little water after getting the roots going again. I have a very nice A. capricorne and myriostigma that are both doing very well -- the soil is firmly rooted, and they gave me gorgeous flowers in the fall. So for the life of me I cannot find out what makes asterias such a darn mystery.

Perhaps I may finally be learning a little on this, so if it's worth anything at all, it could be helpful. I began my love affair with cacti when I was 12. Over the years I took up some bad habits on a ham-fisted approach to watering. Starting at the beginning of April I would drench water over each pot to make sure it was draining all the way through. As in like a faucet out the drainage hole. The watering would be done like that once a week until around the end of October, then once a month November through March. When I look back on it now, I'm amazed that I wasn't rotting the hell out of most of my cacti. However, the casualties during winter were relatively few. After a 20-year hiatus from growing cacti, I started a new collection back in June -- and took that old watering habit right back up again. This time I lost a really nice Turb to some ignorant watering in October. Well, that was a wakeup call, so I'm getting more sophisticated about how judicious watering needs to be considered as part of the art of cultivation.

Okay, back to the asterias. When I brought my new cacti back from the CCC, I repotted them and let them settle in for a couple weeks before their first watering. Then I checked everything periodically to see if the roots were getting established. I was very pleased with the progress of my collection. Except for the asterias. The plant seemed weakly rooted, and I couldn't see any signs of new growth all throughout the summer. Finally on November 28 I started asking about what was wrong, and Ian immediately diagnosed the problem -- root loss. After I thought about it, I suspected that the roots had been in a bad way for a lot longer than I realized. However, if this was going on over the summer, I still didn't know why it happened.

Now I can identify the 2 causes that did the deed. #1, I was using the CCC's cactus mix with an additional 30% pumice as I mixed up the pot. It should've been a lot more pumice, maybe more like 70-80% pumice to 20-30% cactus mix. I can entertain some other ideas, but certainly not what I did the first time. #2, way too much water (Fists of Ham!). If Ian has it right, asterias that lost its roots will not re-establish the root system until the soil has been given enough time to stay dry. Since I kept watering without a clue as to what happened, the roots never had a chance to re-establish in the summer, and my poor asterias was starving. No wonder I was seeing an absence of new growth.

As I said, I'm keeping the asterias dry over the winter. And I'll repot with a much higher ratio of pumice when the growing season starts. At that point the roots should begin establishing again, but the soil needs to stay dry until I can feel a gentle tug on the plant's body to show it isn't pulling out of the pot. However, I also don't want to disturb new roots that are too sensitive, so hopefully waiting until the end of April will be enough time to give me a gentle (and I mean gentle!) pull test. Then the asterias is ready for its first water. As to the amount, no drenching -- more like a tablespoonful or so around the plant. This has to be art (or the art of intuitive guesswork), so I cannot possibly say in advance what I'll do for its next watering until I can get a better feel for how the daytime temps are. Since underwatering is far better than overwatering, I think it's better to err on the side of caution. If I guess right, the asterias will keep its roots, then we should be on safer ground (so to speak) with more watering over the summer. (However, overwatering in summer will undo the successful effort in spring, so I'll need to be careful about keeping the water under control.) If I guess wrong, I'll have to try again with a new asterias and hopefully I can figure out where I screwed up. Didn't think asterias would be that tricky, but they're so interesting, and I do love a challenge anyway.

Edit -- I assume that cacti don't exhibit root growth when they're dormant. If that's actually incorrect, would my asterias start growing roots in winter?

I hope I haven't misinformed anyone here. That's a big part of the newbieness, but if I actually help a little bit, then at least it's because other people with better information are willing to help us set the record straight. And it's why I enjoy spending some quality time here at the forum.

Thanks!

[hoteidoc]

Hey, Steve, thanks for the response. Glad your cacti hiatus is over! My youngest son is up for Christmas & noticed the asterias laying on its side in the pot & was asking what was going on. As I showed it to him, trying to explain about the roots, I discovered a far worse(& my orig. dx) problem - rot. I do use a moisture meter, but have learned you need to angle it under the plant or you won't measure attached "soil" to root ball. And still....
So I am going to try to raise from seeds, and attribute this scenerio to ignorance. My homemade soil recipe is essentially 50% potting soil, 25% grit, 25% vericulite. But like you, I am seriously considering cutting potting soil component in 1/2, replacing with more grit. I think a lot of plants have forgiven my H2O excesses, but have lost a few of the more sensitive ones. I allow myself one "mistake" & replace, put in clay, and up grit content. Haven't lost any "mistake" replacements -- yet!

[CoronaCactus]

I do use a moisture meter, but have learned you need to angle it under the plant or you won't measure attached "soil" to root ball. And still....

In my opinion, i'd avoid those meters. The probes could tear/damage roots just by inserting it into the pot, especially when aiming for under the plant. Watering right away or even within a day or 2 could cause rot to set in.

[hoteidoc]

Thanks, Darryl. I quickly realized that after checking serveral times, so try to "read/feel" the soil (my fairly std. homemade cactus mix), & trusting it more. Also realizing the downside of small gravel over much of top -- can't feel the soil! Generally don't water anything for a week after repot/transplant. But this is how I've learned even then, soil ball directly under plant can still be too moist. I've had the thought (& recently that was confirmed in CactiForum) to leave plant out & let it dry really well. I lost a nice Stenoc. multicost. this summer that way ! Probably my last dying lesson will be PATIENCE!

[Peterthecactusguy]

I do use a moisture meter, but have learned you need to angle it under the plant or you won't measure attached "soil" to root ball. And still....

In my opinion, i'd avoid those meters. The probes could tear/damage roots just by inserting it into the pot, especially when aiming for under the plant. Watering right away or even within a day or 2 could cause rot to set in.

from what I have heard by some of the "experts" they can tell when to water by picking up the pots. I am not there yet and tend to err on the side of caution.

[Steve Johnson]

Thanks, Darryl. I quickly realized that after checking serveral times, so try to "read/feel" the soil (my fairly std. homemade cactus mix), & trusting it more. Also realizing the downside of small gravel over much of top -- can't feel the soil! Generally don't water anything for a week after repot/transplant. But this is how I've learned even then, soil ball directly under plant can still be too moist. I've had the thought (& recently that was confirmed in CactiForum) to leave plant out & let it dry really well. I lost a nice Stenoc. multicost. this summer that way ! Probably my last dying lesson will be PATIENCE!

Been there, done that. After making some stupid mistakes myself, I can't tell you how much I've been learning on the CactiForum since I joined up there in November. Best education has been to develop a sort of intuitive feel for watering, which in turn comes from experience.

On the matter of repotting, cacti should be repotted in fresh, dry soil, then left for a month before watering. I know it seems a long time, but far better to under-water. Plants that get their first watering after only a week or two may find that transplant shock leads to rotting. This is just better safe than sorry, and believe me -- your cacti aren't going to wither away in a month. (If you're repotting in winter, the soil must stay dry until the growing season begins. I know the first impulse is to water regardless, but what you said about patience very much applies here.)

from what I have heard by some of the "experts" they can tell when to water by picking up the pots. I am not there yet and tend to err on the side of caution.

Hmmm, I'm kinda skeptical about that, but maybe it's possible. I'm with you there, and I doubt if erring on the side of caution ever led a cactus to rot.

Merry Christmas to everyone here at the forum!

Steve