2 names needed please

[Micaela]

Thank you in advance


1

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2

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is this a bud or an offset?

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[teo]

Echinocactus grusonii
Gymnocalycium monvillei

[Micaela]

First of all thank you Teo.
Secondly, I start by saying I'm not an expert, I'm only a cactus fan, but if #2 is a G. monvillei, I need to rename the one below then, that has been also identified as G. monvillei.
They differ in spines (number and arrangement): the one below has 8 spines + 1 central, the one above has 11 spines (0 central). Both the plants have the same size.
So who is who?

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[teo]

I think the first is more monvillei-ish looking than the other. Compare to my plant (which I'm fairly sure is a monvillei). But I also think they can vary in spination so the other(s) might also be monvillei.

G. monvillei

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[Micaela]

Good to know!!! So....maybe the flower too can vary LOL
But now that you said G. monvillei can vary (I should know every species can have several subspecies...but I often forget it ), I've taked a look and it seems to me that the second one is a G. monvillei "megalothele" (or simply G. megalothele....I will never learn how to call a cactus ) ---> http://www.cactuspedia.info/schede/GYMN ... othele.htm
It also has a bud, and soon I'll know if it's a G. megalothele or not based on that link the flower is pure white.
About the first you are right and it has to be a G. monvillei.
Thank you very much Teo!!!

[DaveW]

You don't even need subspecies for variation Micaela, plants can even vary greatly within the same population and still be the same species. The problem is we get used to only growing a few artificially selected clones as that species and anything slightly different in spine length, number, colour or even flower colour we think must be a different species.

A couple of examples of natural variation within a species in habitat, all growing within a few feet of each other:-

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In the past when such variants were sent to Europe botanists who had never seen variation in habitat would probably have given them different varietal, or even specific names based on spine or flower colour.

[Eutow_Intermedium]

Yes that is Gymnocalycium Movillei =^-^=

And thats a seed pod you have on the top there. The other Gymno looks to be a G. Movillei too , but as said above . There is a variation in spination between the two plants.

[Micaela]

Thank you for all the infos Dave, sometimes I try to find the differences between two cactuses but I haven't the experience to do it.
It has been very interesting reading what you have written and the images that you have attached were perfect to let me understand, thank you.
Seed pod..I've never seen one before, can I leave it there or should I remove it? Does it steal energy and/or resources from the cactus? Thank you Eutow for the reply!

[DaveW]

No it will not hurt the plant, all cacti produce fruit of one kind or another if the flowers are fertilised. Gymno pods eventually split down the side to release the seed inside or just fall off. They can vary from red to bluish green:-

http://public.fotki.com/plumo/cactaceae ... ote-5.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://harshpod.wordpress.com/2009/08/1 ... -seed-pod/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Eutow_Intermedium]

No it will not hurt the plant, all cacti produce fruit of one kind or another if the flowers are fertilised. Gymno pods eventually split down the side to release the seed inside or just fall off. They can vary from red to bluish green:-

http://public.fotki.com/plumo/cactaceae ... ote-5.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://harshpod.wordpress.com/2009/08/1 ... -seed-pod/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

*nods*

=^-^=

Tis fine.

In fact that pod looks about ready to bust at any time. When it does split you will find the seeds will be surrounded in pith. I tend to take some and roll the roll the stuff between my thumb and fingers in one hand gently , until the seeds emerge and dry out. Maybe using the palm of your hand too.

Then if you so desire you can try growing the seed

[Micaela]

Thank you very much