Self-sterile, they need something to provide pollen. There are a few known non-L. pricipis donors (I don't know what they are, but someone does)Edwindwianto wrote: ↑Tue Mar 17, 2020 10:28 pm Thanks for sharing...i keep that in mind and i will be carefull when mine is forming buds
Do you know, is it self-fertile or self-sterile?
Thanks
EDWIN
Edwin Dwianto
Re: Edwin Dwianto
Disclaimer: I'm in sunny Arizona, so any advice I give may not apply in your circumstances.
Tim
Tim
- Edwindwianto
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Re: Edwin Dwianto
Hi Tim
Thanks for the info
Ahh...another self-sterile plant
How is this happening?
Because at the same flower, the pollen and the style aren''t mature at the same time?
So, when the style is mature, the pollen is no longer viable...is that it?
So...we need fresh pollen from other flower, to be applied to that matured style....
I think, i need to buy another L. principis
EDWN
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Turbinicarpus schmiedickeanus var. polaskii is flowering :D
Good day everyone
Today, my Turbi polaskii is flowering
This is my first cactus ever, flowering in my care
I try to take it's photo since few days ago...
Here they are...
Today, i try to take several pictures of it during opening time...but i miss it by several minutes And this is the close up Questions
1) Where is the style?...i don't see any...hmmm
2) According to Lifle, the style should be white to pinkish white...and since it has no style (which is odd enough to me)...is this true var. polaskii?
Thanks
EDWIN
Today, my Turbi polaskii is flowering
This is my first cactus ever, flowering in my care
I try to take it's photo since few days ago...
Here they are...
Today, i try to take several pictures of it during opening time...but i miss it by several minutes And this is the close up Questions
1) Where is the style?...i don't see any...hmmm
2) According to Lifle, the style should be white to pinkish white...and since it has no style (which is odd enough to me)...is this true var. polaskii?
Thanks
EDWIN
- Steve Johnson
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Re: Turbinicarpus schmiedickeanus var. polaskii is flowering :D
Just for reference, here's one of my Turb polaskiis with a wide-open flower on 8/25/19:
I've always found Turbinicarpus to be a rather confusing genus, so I don't know if yours is a polaskii or not. The brown stripes on the petals may point toward klinkerianus as a possibility.
I've always found Turbinicarpus to be a rather confusing genus, so I don't know if yours is a polaskii or not. The brown stripes on the petals may point toward klinkerianus as a possibility.
If you just want photos without all the blather, please visit my Flickr gallery.
My location: Los Angeles, CA (Zone 10b)
My location: Los Angeles, CA (Zone 10b)
- Edwindwianto
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Re: Turbinicarpus schmiedickeanus var. polaskii is flowering :D
Good afternoon SirSteve Johnson wrote: ↑Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:15 am Just for reference, here's one of my Turb polaskiis with a wide-open flower on 8/25/19:
I've always found Turbinicarpus to be a rather confusing genus, so I don't know if yours is a polaskii or not. The brown stripes on the petals may point toward klinkerianus as a possibility.
Thanks for the reference and suggestion
Awesome plant, you've got there, BTW
Yes, i found that yours looks similar to the one on lifle
There is no doubt that mine isn't vat. polaskii
And you could be right about Turbinicarpus schmiedickeanus subs. klinkerianus
It does look like my plant and the flower is similar
If i could ask a few more question...
1) why my flower seems not to have any styles?...(i found it's odd)
2) do turbis hybridize among them self?
Thanks
EDWIN
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Turbinicarpus schmiedickeanus var. polaskii is flowering :D (Part 2)
Hi everyone
As you know, today my Turbinicarpus schmiedickeanus var. polaskii is in flower
Or maybe i should not say "Turbinicarpus schmiedickeanus var. polaskii" again, since it isn't...
It may very well be Turbinicarpus schmiedickeanus subs. klinkerianus as Mr. Johnson has suggested (thanks)
This whole thing is a new experience for me and a lot of things i'am unaware of
For instance, the flower is reclosed at night...wow...
(I didn't know the exact time though, when it started to do that)
I will find out for how many days the flower will keep doing that (open and close) before it fades
Today's observation
The flower opened at around 12AM and needs about 30mnts to 1 hour to be fully opened
After 13 o'clock, i didn't see anymore movement at all...as you can see in these picts...
At around 19:00 hours, i found it is reclosed
EDWIN
As you know, today my Turbinicarpus schmiedickeanus var. polaskii is in flower
Or maybe i should not say "Turbinicarpus schmiedickeanus var. polaskii" again, since it isn't...
It may very well be Turbinicarpus schmiedickeanus subs. klinkerianus as Mr. Johnson has suggested (thanks)
This whole thing is a new experience for me and a lot of things i'am unaware of
For instance, the flower is reclosed at night...wow...
(I didn't know the exact time though, when it started to do that)
I will find out for how many days the flower will keep doing that (open and close) before it fades
Today's observation
The flower opened at around 12AM and needs about 30mnts to 1 hour to be fully opened
After 13 o'clock, i didn't see anymore movement at all...as you can see in these picts...
At around 19:00 hours, i found it is reclosed
EDWIN
- Steve Johnson
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Re: Turbinicarpus schmiedickeanus var. polaskii is flowering :D
Hi Edwin,Edwindwianto wrote: ↑Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:27 am1) why my flower seems not to have any styles?...(i found it's odd)
2) do turbis hybridize among them self?
1. The lack of a style is odd, although it could be due to the fact that you have a very young Turb flowering for the first time.
2. Hybridization within genera is quite common, so you might have a Turb klinkerianus x polaskii hybrid. It'll be interesting to see what the flower on your other Turb looks like when it gives you a bloom.
You're welcome.
If you just want photos without all the blather, please visit my Flickr gallery.
My location: Los Angeles, CA (Zone 10b)
My location: Los Angeles, CA (Zone 10b)
Re: Edwin Dwianto
My Turbinicarpus polaskii has the same thick furry stigma lobes as yours Steve.
As far as I recall the other Turbinicarpus have much thinner less pronounced stigma lobes?
Usually the style and stigma lobes are exerted before the pollen is ripe to help avoid self fertilisation, the anthers growing longer as the stigma ages and hopefully having already pollinated becomes less receptive. As Steve says it may just be a freak first flower.
As far as I recall the other Turbinicarpus have much thinner less pronounced stigma lobes?
Usually the style and stigma lobes are exerted before the pollen is ripe to help avoid self fertilisation, the anthers growing longer as the stigma ages and hopefully having already pollinated becomes less receptive. As Steve says it may just be a freak first flower.
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Re: Turbinicarpus schmiedickeanus var. polaskii is flowering :D
Steve Johnson wrote: ↑Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:12 pm 1. The lack of a style is odd, although it could be due to the fact that you have a very young Turb flowering for the first time.
Good morning Sirs
Thanks for the response
I can't wait to see the next flower...to see the color of the style
Ahhhh x_xSteve Johnson wrote: ↑Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:12 pm 2. Hybridization within genera is quite common, so you might have a Turb klinkerianus x polaskii hybrid. It'll be interesting to see what the flower on your other Turb looks like when it gives you a bloom.
I dont like hybrids x_x
I hope it's not hybrids
Thanks for the confurmation, Sir
I asked because (i read it somewhere in this forum) mammillaria doesn't hybridize among them self
Thanks Dave for the explanation
It answers my question
So...the style is mature first...is this what you mean Dave?
So if i have 2 flowers which open in several days apart...i can pollinate the 2nd flower with the 1st flower's pollen?
Thanks Dave
Re: Edwin Dwianto
I think we are just using different terminology Edwin. The style is the stalk the sigma lobes are born on. It is the stigma lobes that are the receptive part. As with the stamens, the filaments are the stalks bearing the anthers having the pollen on top.
See:-
http://www.cactusmuseum.com/anatomy.asp
"The stigma is only able to receive the pollen for a limited time. When it is ready, the tip is sticky to help the pollen grains stay in place."
Once the pollen is ripe it will fertilise another plant.
"For fertilisation to take place, pollen of the right type must join up with the ovules. The pollen is contained in bags called pollen sacs which open when the pollen is ripe. Some pollen is only ripe for a few days, some lasts much longer.
See:-
http://theseedsite.co.uk/pollination.html
Just like humans, unless they are identical twins, brothers are genetically different from each other even though they have the same parents. With plants the same is true since each fertilised seed is a different individual, even if produced by the same two plants crossing and contained in the same fruit.
That is why when producing hybrids each seed produced from the same fruit is genetically a different individual and why a cultivar name should only be applied to one particular plant raised from one individual seed from that cross and not given to all the other seedlings in the batch. If you consider any others worth a name they should be given a different cultivar name. In fact to deserve that cultivar name all other plants bearing it should be vegetative propagations from it. Unless the cultivar is self fertile you cannot produce the same cultivar again from seed, even using the same parental cross..
"Each seed is unique, formed from one ovule and one grain of pollen, with its own particular combination of all the separate genes from each of its parents. Because of this diversity and the possibilities it gives the next generations, nature sometimes takes precautions to prevent flowers being pollinated by their own pollen. Sometimes, the stigma won't accept pollen from the same flower or the same plant, sometimes the pollen ripens at a different time from the stigmas, or the stigmas are placed above the stamens so that it is more difficult for the flowers to be self-pollinated."
See:-
http://www.cactusmuseum.com/anatomy.asp
"The stigma is only able to receive the pollen for a limited time. When it is ready, the tip is sticky to help the pollen grains stay in place."
Once the pollen is ripe it will fertilise another plant.
"For fertilisation to take place, pollen of the right type must join up with the ovules. The pollen is contained in bags called pollen sacs which open when the pollen is ripe. Some pollen is only ripe for a few days, some lasts much longer.
See:-
http://theseedsite.co.uk/pollination.html
Just like humans, unless they are identical twins, brothers are genetically different from each other even though they have the same parents. With plants the same is true since each fertilised seed is a different individual, even if produced by the same two plants crossing and contained in the same fruit.
That is why when producing hybrids each seed produced from the same fruit is genetically a different individual and why a cultivar name should only be applied to one particular plant raised from one individual seed from that cross and not given to all the other seedlings in the batch. If you consider any others worth a name they should be given a different cultivar name. In fact to deserve that cultivar name all other plants bearing it should be vegetative propagations from it. Unless the cultivar is self fertile you cannot produce the same cultivar again from seed, even using the same parental cross..
"Each seed is unique, formed from one ovule and one grain of pollen, with its own particular combination of all the separate genes from each of its parents. Because of this diversity and the possibilities it gives the next generations, nature sometimes takes precautions to prevent flowers being pollinated by their own pollen. Sometimes, the stigma won't accept pollen from the same flower or the same plant, sometimes the pollen ripens at a different time from the stigmas, or the stigmas are placed above the stamens so that it is more difficult for the flowers to be self-pollinated."
Re: Edwin Dwianto
My key for identifying T. polaskii is that mine turn red in the winter, moreso than the other Turbis. Not sure if you have the climate to turn them red, though. Mine are still brick red. The whole is the pollen ripe and/or is the stigma receptive thing is a mystery to me.
My biggest challenge is to get two plants flowering at the same time.
My biggest challenge is to get two plants flowering at the same time.
Disclaimer: I'm in sunny Arizona, so any advice I give may not apply in your circumstances.
Tim
Tim
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Re: Edwin Dwianto
Good afternoon Dave
Sorry for the late reply...and thanks for the always informative answer
And i think i need to learn more about flower anatomy and it's terminology in english x_x (thanks for the link)
Dave and Tim (and others)...how do i pollinate the self-sterile flowers?
Of course, this is not a question about how to pollinate them using a paint brush etc...but rather, if i had a 2 self-sterile flowers from 2 different plants of the same species, what should i do?.
Or rather...what do you do to pollinate your turbis of the same species (not creating hybrid)?
Thanks
EDWIN
Re: Edwin Dwianto
Just use a pollinating brush to transfer the pollen from the anthers of one to the stigma of the other and vice versa. The problem can be if the two plants are clones of each other, being vegetative propagations from the same original plant if not seed grown. Therefore if it is a self sterile species you would need two distinct clones, probably plants grown from seed rather than propagated as offsets. However I don't think Turbinicarpus are clonally propagated since they are usually seed raised, therefore should be compatible.
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Turbinicarpus schmiedickeanus var. polaskii is flowering :D (Part 3)
Hi everyone,
These are the updates of my turbi's flower
At the 2nd day, At tye 3rd day...i didn't take it's photo, because i was busy
At the 4th day, some1/something broke it...so at this point, i don't know how long would the flower have lasted
I have to wait for the next flower, to observe this Related post
PART 2 l PART 1
EDWIN
These are the updates of my turbi's flower
At the 2nd day, At tye 3rd day...i didn't take it's photo, because i was busy
At the 4th day, some1/something broke it...so at this point, i don't know how long would the flower have lasted
I have to wait for the next flower, to observe this Related post
PART 2 l PART 1
EDWIN
- Edwindwianto
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Re: Edwin Dwianto
Good morning DaveDaveW wrote: ↑Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:34 am Just use a pollinating brush to transfer the pollen from the anthers of one to the stigma of the other and vice versa. The problem can be if the two plants are clones of each other, being vegetative propagations from the same original plant if not seed grown. Therefore if it is a self sterile species you would need two distinct clones, probably plants grown from seed rather than propagated as offsets. However I don't think Turbinicarpus are clonally propagated since they are usually seed raised, therefore should be compatible.
Thanks for the answer...
I will get back to this discution when i read more about self-sterility/self-incompatibility in flower
EDWIN