Edwin Dwianto

[TimN]

Thanks for sharing...i keep that in mind and i will be carefull when mine is forming buds
Do you know, is it self-fertile or self-sterile?

Thanks

EDWIN

Self-sterile, they need something to provide pollen. There are a few known non-L. pricipis donors (I don't know what they are, but someone does)

[Edwindwianto]

Self-sterile, they need something to provide pollen. There are a few known non-L. pricipis donors (I don't know what they are, but someone does)

Hi Tim

Thanks for the info

Ahh...another self-sterile plant
How is this happening?
Because at the same flower, the pollen and the style aren''t mature at the same time?
So, when the style is mature, the pollen is no longer viable...is that it?
So...we need fresh pollen from other flower, to be applied to that matured style....

I think, i need to buy another L. principis

EDWN

[Edwindwianto]

Good day everyone

Today, my Turbi polaskii is flowering
This is my first cactus ever, flowering in my care

I try to take it's photo since few days ago...
Here they are...

01 - Mar18th 2020.jpg (81.64 KiB) Viewed 6482 times

02 - Mar19th 2020.jpg (81.58 KiB) Viewed 6482 times

03 - Mar20th 2020.jpg (78.17 KiB) Viewed 6482 times

04 - Mar21st 2020.jpg (69.43 KiB) Viewed 6482 times

Today, i try to take several pictures of it during opening time...but i miss it by several minutes

05 - Mar22nd 2020, 12h00.jpg (48.3 KiB) Viewed 6482 times

06 - Mar22nd 2020, 12h30.jpg (54.75 KiB) Viewed 6482 times

07 - Mar22nd 2020, 13h00.jpg (55.81 KiB) Viewed 6482 times

08 - Mar22nd 2020, 13h30.jpg (56.71 KiB) Viewed 6482 times

And this is the close up

09 - Mar22nd 2020, close up.jpg (61.03 KiB) Viewed 6482 times

Questions
1) Where is the style?...i don't see any...hmmm
2) According to Lifle, the style should be white to pinkish white...and since it has no style (which is odd enough to me)...is this true var. polaskii?

Thanks

EDWIN

[Steve Johnson]

Just for reference, here's one of my Turb polaskiis with a wide-open flower on 8/25/19:



I've always found Turbinicarpus to be a rather confusing genus, so I don't know if yours is a polaskii or not. The brown stripes on the petals may point toward klinkerianus as a possibility.

[Edwindwianto]

Just for reference, here's one of my Turb polaskiis with a wide-open flower on 8/25/19:



I've always found Turbinicarpus to be a rather confusing genus, so I don't know if yours is a polaskii or not. The brown stripes on the petals may point toward klinkerianus as a possibility.

Good afternoon Sir

Thanks for the reference and suggestion
Awesome plant, you've got there, BTW

Yes, i found that yours looks similar to the one on lifle
There is no doubt that mine isn't vat. polaskii

And you could be right about Turbinicarpus schmiedickeanus subs. klinkerianus
It does look like my plant and the flower is similar

If i could ask a few more question...
1) why my flower seems not to have any styles?...(i found it's odd)
2) do turbis hybridize among them self?

Thanks

EDWIN

[Edwindwianto]

Hi everyone

As you know, today my Turbinicarpus schmiedickeanus var. polaskii is in flower
Or maybe i should not say "Turbinicarpus schmiedickeanus var. polaskii" again, since it isn't...
It may very well be Turbinicarpus schmiedickeanus subs. klinkerianus as Mr. Johnson has suggested (thanks)

This whole thing is a new experience for me and a lot of things i'am unaware of
For instance, the flower is reclosed at night...wow...
(I didn't know the exact time though, when it started to do that)

10 - Mar22nd 2020, 19h00.jpg (60.37 KiB) Viewed 6453 times

I will find out for how many days the flower will keep doing that (open and close) before it fades

Today's observation
The flower opened at around 12AM and needs about 30mnts to 1 hour to be fully opened
After 13 o'clock, i didn't see anymore movement at all...as you can see in these picts...

At around 19:00 hours, i found it is reclosed

EDWIN

[Steve Johnson]

1) why my flower seems not to have any styles?...(i found it's odd)
2) do turbis hybridize among them self?

Hi Edwin,

1. The lack of a style is odd, although it could be due to the fact that you have a very young Turb flowering for the first time.

2. Hybridization within genera is quite common, so you might have a Turb klinkerianus x polaskii hybrid. It'll be interesting to see what the flower on your other Turb looks like when it gives you a bloom.

Thanks

You're welcome.

[DaveW]

My Turbinicarpus polaskii has the same thick furry stigma lobes as yours Steve.

Turbinicarpus polaskii.jpg (83.82 KiB) Viewed 6409 times

As far as I recall the other Turbinicarpus have much thinner less pronounced stigma lobes?

T.-gramnispinus2.jpg (95.58 KiB) Viewed 6409 times

Usually the style and stigma lobes are exerted before the pollen is ripe to help avoid self fertilisation, the anthers growing longer as the stigma ages and hopefully having already pollinated becomes less receptive. As Steve says it may just be a freak first flower.

[Edwindwianto]

1. The lack of a style is odd, although it could be due to the fact that you have a very young Turb flowering for the first time.

As Steve says it may just be a freak first flower.

Good morning Sirs

Thanks for the response
I can't wait to see the next flower...to see the color of the style

2. Hybridization within genera is quite common, so you might have a Turb klinkerianus x polaskii hybrid. It'll be interesting to see what the flower on your other Turb looks like when it gives you a bloom.

Ahhhh x_x
I dont like hybrids x_x
I hope it's not hybrids

Thanks for the confurmation, Sir
I asked because (i read it somewhere in this forum) mammillaria doesn't hybridize among them self

Usually the style and stigma lobes are exerted before the pollen is ripe to help avoid self fertilisation, the anthers growing longer as the stigma ages and hopefully having already pollinated becomes less receptive.

Thanks Dave for the explanation
It answers my question

So...the style is mature first...is this what you mean Dave?
So if i have 2 flowers which open in several days apart...i can pollinate the 2nd flower with the 1st flower's pollen?

Thanks Dave

[DaveW]

I think we are just using different terminology Edwin. The style is the stalk the sigma lobes are born on. It is the stigma lobes that are the receptive part. As with the stamens, the filaments are the stalks bearing the anthers having the pollen on top.

See:-

http://www.cactusmuseum.com/anatomy.asp

"The stigma is only able to receive the pollen for a limited time. When it is ready, the tip is sticky to help the pollen grains stay in place."

Once the pollen is ripe it will fertilise another plant.

"For fertilisation to take place, pollen of the right type must join up with the ovules. The pollen is contained in bags called pollen sacs which open when the pollen is ripe. Some pollen is only ripe for a few days, some lasts much longer.

See:-

http://theseedsite.co.uk/pollination.html

Just like humans, unless they are identical twins, brothers are genetically different from each other even though they have the same parents. With plants the same is true since each fertilised seed is a different individual, even if produced by the same two plants crossing and contained in the same fruit.

That is why when producing hybrids each seed produced from the same fruit is genetically a different individual and why a cultivar name should only be applied to one particular plant raised from one individual seed from that cross and not given to all the other seedlings in the batch. If you consider any others worth a name they should be given a different cultivar name. In fact to deserve that cultivar name all other plants bearing it should be vegetative propagations from it. Unless the cultivar is self fertile you cannot produce the same cultivar again from seed, even using the same parental cross..

"Each seed is unique, formed from one ovule and one grain of pollen, with its own particular combination of all the separate genes from each of its parents. Because of this diversity and the possibilities it gives the next generations, nature sometimes takes precautions to prevent flowers being pollinated by their own pollen. Sometimes, the stigma won't accept pollen from the same flower or the same plant, sometimes the pollen ripens at a different time from the stigmas, or the stigmas are placed above the stamens so that it is more difficult for the flowers to be self-pollinated."

[TimN]

My key for identifying T. polaskii is that mine turn red in the winter, moreso than the other Turbis. Not sure if you have the climate to turn them red, though. Mine are still brick red. The whole is the pollen ripe and/or is the stigma receptive thing is a mystery to me.

My biggest challenge is to get two plants flowering at the same time.

[Edwindwianto]

http://www.cactusmuseum.com/anatomy.asp

Good afternoon Dave
Sorry for the late reply...and thanks for the always informative answer
And i think i need to learn more about flower anatomy and it's terminology in english x_x (thanks for the link)

The whole is the pollen ripe and/or is the stigma receptive thing is a mystery to me.

My biggest challenge is to get two plants flowering at the same time.

Dave and Tim (and others)...how do i pollinate the self-sterile flowers?
Of course, this is not a question about how to pollinate them using a paint brush etc...but rather, if i had a 2 self-sterile flowers from 2 different plants of the same species, what should i do?.

Or rather...what do you do to pollinate your turbis of the same species (not creating hybrid)?

Thanks

EDWIN

[DaveW]

Just use a pollinating brush to transfer the pollen from the anthers of one to the stigma of the other and vice versa. The problem can be if the two plants are clones of each other, being vegetative propagations from the same original plant if not seed grown. Therefore if it is a self sterile species you would need two distinct clones, probably plants grown from seed rather than propagated as offsets. However I don't think Turbinicarpus are clonally propagated since they are usually seed raised, therefore should be compatible.

[Edwindwianto]

Hi everyone,
These are the updates of my turbi's flower

At the 2nd day,

11 - Mar23rd 2020.jpg (50.42 KiB) Viewed 6213 times

At tye 3rd day...i didn't take it's photo, because i was busy

At the 4th day, some1/something broke it...so at this point, i don't know how long would the flower have lasted
I have to wait for the next flower, to observe this

12 - Mar25th 2020.jpg (71.28 KiB) Viewed 6213 times

Related post
PART 2 l PART 1

EDWIN

[Edwindwianto]

Just use a pollinating brush to transfer the pollen from the anthers of one to the stigma of the other and vice versa. The problem can be if the two plants are clones of each other, being vegetative propagations from the same original plant if not seed grown. Therefore if it is a self sterile species you would need two distinct clones, probably plants grown from seed rather than propagated as offsets. However I don't think Turbinicarpus are clonally propagated since they are usually seed raised, therefore should be compatible.

Good morning Dave

Thanks for the answer...
I will get back to this discution when i read more about self-sterility/self-incompatibility in flower

EDWIN