Graft chimeras and Pereskiopsis without glochids

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sampsa-pellervoinen
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Graft chimeras and Pereskiopsis without glochids

Post by sampsa-pellervoinen »

I use pereskiopsis a lot in grafting and think it’s one of the best stocks for seedlings but absolutely can not stand the glochids. Over the years I’ve experimented with different ways to remove them and think I might have finally come up with a permanent solution.

About a year ago I made a series of pereskiopsis x ariocarpus chimeras (brute force method), most were not stable and the ones that were tended to be ariocarpus dominant, but at least one appears to be stable, with ariocarpus tissue only at the nodes. Here’s an example of some parent chimeras:

Image

I was able to cut off the pereskiopsis dominant chimera and root it without issue (if anything it roots more rapidly than wildtype pereskiopsis) and propagate it – it is stable through cutting and new growth from auxiliary buds display the same phenotype. I’ve now been cutting and propagating the chimera for nine months with only rare reversions.

I’ve noticed the chimera has two distinct differences from the wildtype – the first is that the leaves are much smaller, more succulent, and symmetrical. The second that is at each node the plant produces an ariocarpus fur instead of glochids, some older growth will have a single ariocarpus spine (dull and without barbs). It’s actually pretty pleasant to handle – here’s a comparison of what the plant looks like compared to wild type:

Image

As the plant ages the fur gets thicker and eventually a spine will develop but these are easy to avoid, with damage or extreme stress I’ve noticed two types of reversions (which can easily be cut off) – in a single case I had a plant revert to what looked like wildtype pereskiopsis and in another case the ariocarpus tissue started to take over and the growth slowed and became deformed. For the most part this isn’t a problem normally:

Image

I wanted to share this early success and see if anyone else has any experience with chimeras. I’ll continue to post updates if I have any, right now I’m characterizing the plants I have as root stock for grafting and trying to grow some of it out enough to get flowers.
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Aeonium2003
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Re: Graft chimeras and Pereskiopsis without glochids

Post by Aeonium2003 »

Very interesting thread! :thumbright:
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Tom in Tucson
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Re: Graft chimeras and Pereskiopsis without glochids

Post by Tom in Tucson »

Interesting work! You've found a useful chimera tool. Your observations are well presented. I wish you the best of luck in propagating a stock we would all like to own!
LateBloomer
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Re: Graft chimeras and Pereskiopsis without glochids

Post by LateBloomer »

I’ve never successfully created a chimera but years ago I saw someone post about a pereskiopsis/ariocarpus chimera similar to yours but due to the growth rate of the stock it would always revert.

Currently I don’t have pereskiopsis but I remember that the spines and glochids we’re related to watering and light exposure… lower light and high water was what kept them minimal if I remember correctly.

By brute force method do you mean mass grafting?
LateBloomer
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Re: Graft chimeras and Pereskiopsis without glochids

Post by LateBloomer »

Btw awesome thread looking forward to your updates :)
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sampsa-pellervoinen
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Re: Graft chimeras and Pereskiopsis without glochids

Post by sampsa-pellervoinen »

LateBloomer wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 7:35 pm By brute force method do you mean mass grafting?
Yes exactly - I did a few hundred grafts and ended up with 6 chimeras - from these only one was stable/useful which is what I am working with now. Most did revert or had very slow growth but this one seems extremely stable, I have now made a few dozen clones of it without reversion and it's working well as a rootstock for grafting so far - at this rate it will soon replace my wildtype pereskiopsis.
LateBloomer
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Re: Graft chimeras and Pereskiopsis without glochids

Post by LateBloomer »

Very cool man I'm sure you could commercialize them as most growers hate the spines... I never minded them never had an issue as they just seem to rub off my finger as easily as they stick.

I have a few idea on forcing chimeras without doing hundreds of grafts which is how they normally arrive. Obviously need to test them since theory doesn't always translate to real world.

Thanks for the update... very important information knowing worth sharing; that you can get a stable chimera even with a very fast stock like pereskiopsis.
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MrXeric
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Re: Graft chimeras and Pereskiopsis without glochids

Post by MrXeric »

Good work on your chimera!

I wonder how the roots compare? You said the chimera roots rapidly, which is a good sign, but I wonder if they can take the same treatment as wild-type Pereskiopsis? I don't let the soil dry for my Pereskiopsis when in growth, something I wouldn't dare for Ariocarpus, so it's interesting to see how resilient your chimera's roots are.

I'm also interested in the growth rate. You didn't explicitly say if that side-by-side comparison picture was comparing two similarly sized plants after growing for the same measure of time. I'm assuming you are doing side-by-side comparisons of grafts done on your chimera against grafts on wild-type Pereskiopsis. I look forward to see what comes of that.

The flowers are going to be interesting! I wonder if it'll take after Pereskiopsis and grow separate flowering cladodes, or if it'll take after Ariocarpus and flower straight from the axils. I'm guessing the latter from the Ariocarpus areoles. No branching yet either, I assume?
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sampsa-pellervoinen
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Re: Graft chimeras and Pereskiopsis without glochids

Post by sampsa-pellervoinen »

MrXeric wrote: Fri Jun 10, 2022 12:04 am I wonder how the roots compare? You said the chimera roots rapidly, which is a good sign, but I wonder if they can take the same treatment as wild-type Pereskiopsis? I don't let the soil dry for my Pereskiopsis when in growth, something I wouldn't dare for Ariocarpus, so it's interesting to see how resilient your chimera's roots are.
I've been treating them exactly the same (soil never dries) and if anything the root growth is more robust, here's two similarly sized/rooted cuttings for comparison, along with an example of what it looks like branching after you take a cutting - again if anything this is more robust branching then what I typically see from WT pereskiopsis:

Image
MrXeric wrote: Fri Jun 10, 2022 12:04 am I'm also interested in the growth rate. You didn't explicitly say if that side-by-side comparison picture was comparing two similarly sized plants after growing for the same measure of time. I'm assuming you are doing side-by-side comparisons of grafts done on your chimera against grafts on wild-type Pereskiopsis. I look forward to see what comes of that.
I think the chimera might grow a little bit slower overall which might be due to the smaller leaves on average or differences in optimal conditions - the photo I showed earlier of the side-by-side the plants were different ages (the chimera was a few weeks older) - so far in early grafting experiments they are working well, the stems tend to be a little more woody but the scions fuse well - scion growth does seem a little slower on the chimeras but also less distorted/more uniform. I hope to get some photos in a few months of this.
Last edited by sampsa-pellervoinen on Mon Jun 13, 2022 4:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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MrXeric
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Re: Graft chimeras and Pereskiopsis without glochids

Post by MrXeric »

This all looks very promising. I am excited to see where you will take this.
nes
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Re: Graft chimeras and Pereskiopsis without glochids

Post by nes »

who would've thought :o
excellent work.
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Carbo
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Re: Graft chimeras and Pereskiopsis without glochids

Post by Carbo »

sampsa-pellervoinen wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 4:43 am I use pereskiopsis a lot in grafting and think it’s one of the best stocks for seedlings but absolutely can not stand the glochids. Over the years I’ve experimented with different ways to remove them and think I might have finally come up with a permanent solution.

About a year ago I made a series of pereskiopsis x ariocarpus chimeras (brute force method), most were not stable and the ones that were tended to be ariocarpus dominant, but at least one appears to be stable, with ariocarpus tissue only at the nodes. Here’s an example of some parent chimeras:

Ever since I saw this thread I've been fascinated by it. Great work! May I ask what species of ariocarpus did you use?
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sampsa-pellervoinen
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Re: Graft chimeras and Pereskiopsis without glochids

Post by sampsa-pellervoinen »

Carbo wrote: Fri Jul 22, 2022 6:54 pm Ever since I saw this thread I've been fascinated by it. Great work! May I ask what species of ariocarpus did you use?

Hey! I have to say I really liked reading your grafting thread as well. I'm working with Ariocarpus fissuratus exclusively for my chimeras.
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