Looking For Dyna-Gro All-Pro 7-7-7 Replacement

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OWgave
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Looking For Dyna-Gro All-Pro 7-7-7 Replacement

Post by OWgave »

Hello All-

So I’ve been just told that Dyna-Gro All-Pro 7-7-7 has been discontinued (can’t find it anywhere local, online, EBay and Amazon) which I have been using and pretty much out of. Does anyone know where I can get it online or can suggest another good replacement?

Thanks for reading and MASS thanks for replying.

OWgave
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Steve Johnson
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Re: Looking For Dyna-Gro All-Pro 7-7-7 Replacement

Post by Steve Johnson »

OWgave wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 11:29 pm Hello All-

So I’ve been just told that Dyna-Gro All-Pro 7-7-7 has been discontinued (can’t find it anywhere local, online, EBay and Amazon) which I have been using and pretty much out of. Does anyone know where I can get it online or can suggest another good replacement?

Thanks for reading and MASS thanks for replying.

OWgave
I just sent you a PM on this subject, but worth sharing for other members who are "in the same boat".

I'm kinda surprised that Dyna-Gro discontinued the All-Pro, but I was prepared for the possibility. Good news is that all-in-one fertilizers aren't the only game in town, so rather than recommeding the Orchid-Pro 7-8-6 as a fallback, I think this should be a better recommendation:
  • General Hydroponics FloraMicro 5-0-1 and FloraBloom 0-5-4 to give you a total NPK of 5-5-5.
Cacti and succulents wouldn't know the difference between 5-5-5 and 7-7-7, so when I finally use up my gallon of Dyna-Gro 7-7-7, I'll go with the General Hydroponics ferts. In reviewing the chemical analysis of the FloraMicro and FloraBloom, both ferts combined have a good amount of minor nutrients and micronutrients, so IMO they'll be as good as or better than what we're getting from the Dyna-Gro ferts. However, there is a problem we'll need to look at...

Cacti and succulents thrive when K is 1.5 times higher than N. With the help of Jerry Smith (AKA jerrytheplater), I came up with the right amount of Potassium sulfate that supplements 1/2 tsp. 7-7-7 going into a gallon of my watering solution. The nice thing about having a small collection is that the gallon of 7-7-7 I got way back in 2012 won't be used up until sometime next year (or maybe the year after that), although I may want to start fresh with the General Hydroponics ferts next spring. When I do, I'll need to lower the amount of Potassium sulfate to keep the N and K in proper balance. If you'd like to go with the General Hydroponics ferts and you want to supplement them with the right amount of Potassium sulfate, I'll be happy to guide you.
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jerrytheplater
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Re: Looking For Dyna-Gro All-Pro 7-7-7 Replacement

Post by jerrytheplater »

Steve and all

Simple way to use 5-5-5 as a substitute for 7-7-7 is to use more of the 5-5-5 than the label calls for to equal the 1/2 tsp 7-7-7 per gallon. This way the same amount of Potassium Sulfate can be used.

How much more? 5 x ? = 7. ?= 7/5 or 1 2/5 or 1.4.

Since 1/2 tsp = 2.5 ml, 2.5 ml x 1.4 = 3.5. Use 3.5 ml 5-5-5 per gallon along with the proper amount of Potassium Sulfate needed to bring the fertilizer into the ratios MikefromOz suggested way before I joined this forum. Even though I calculated it a while back, I forget now what it should be. Steve can PM you, or post it here.
Jerry Smith
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45 inches (114 cm) rain equivalent per year, approx. evenly spread per month
2012 USDA Hardiness Zone 6b: -5F to OF (-20C to -18C) min.
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Re: Looking For Dyna-Gro All-Pro 7-7-7 Replacement

Post by jerrytheplater »

I need to add a PS which I thought of after posting. You will need to use 3.5 ml of each of the two General Hydroponics fertilizers per gallon in order to end up with the equivalent to 7-7-7. Or if you mix the two together (assuming they are compatible to be mixed at concentrated strengths) you will have to add 7 ml of the mixture.
Jerry Smith
Bloomingdale, NJ
45 inches (114 cm) rain equivalent per year, approx. evenly spread per month
2012 USDA Hardiness Zone 6b: -5F to OF (-20C to -18C) min.
OWgave
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Re: Looking For Dyna-Gro All-Pro 7-7-7 Replacement

Post by OWgave »

Awwwwlll Righteee Thennn. 3.5 ml of each General Hydroponics Floramicro and of Florabloom. To be on the safe side, I will add them to the gallon of water separately.

Thank you so much Steve and Jerry.

OWgave.
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Steve Johnson
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Re: Looking For Dyna-Gro All-Pro 7-7-7 Replacement

Post by Steve Johnson »

Maybe cacti and succulents would know the difference between 5-5-5 and 7-7-7, so I guess we shouldn't "short-change" them on the nutrients they could use for optimal health over the long haul. Such being the case, Jerry has the right idea, and 3.5 ml plastic disposable pipettes can be easily found on eBay. However, this is way better:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09V59N9DG/re ... 06bcf&th=1

Per the instructions from General Hydroponics:

SHAKE WELL BEFORE MIXING. Always add FloraMicro to fresh water first and stir well, then add FloraGro and/or FloraBloom. Never combine FloraMicro with FloraGro or Flora Bloom in undiluted form; doing so may cause nutrient lockout making some minerals unavailable. This product is concentrated to the limit of solubility. Protect from freezing and direct sunlight. If crystallization occurs, mix entire contents with an equal amount of hot water and double the amount used.

Re. the Potassium sulfate, I prepare a stock solution with 7 grams of 0-0-52 going into a 1-gallon jug of distilled water, R/O water, or rainwater (not tap or well water!). Going by Jerry's recommendation to dispense 3.5 ml. each of the FloraMicro and FloraBloom into a gallon of my watering solution, I would add 5 fluid ounces of the Potassium sulfate stock solution -- exactly the same as what I've been doing with the Dyna-Gro 7-7-7. And when I stop using the 7-7-7, the amounts of Ca and Mg in the General Hydroponics ferts will actually be better than what I currently get when I started supplementing the 7-7-7 with a Cal-Mag fert. Now that I think about it, I may be done with the Dyna-Gro after this year's growing season ends.
If you just want photos without all the blather, please visit my Flickr gallery.
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ohugal
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Re: Looking For Dyna-Gro All-Pro 7-7-7 Replacement

Post by ohugal »

Fantastic! It's also widely available in Europe, thus ending my quest for Dyna-Gro. Thanks!
Regarding the potassium sulfate, would the following product work: https://bionovanutrients.com/Bionova-K-20/10062Z?
Or perhaps this: https://www.aquascaper.be/en/potassium- ... k2so4.html?
What's the math behind this?
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Re: Looking For Dyna-Gro All-Pro 7-7-7 Replacement

Post by jerrytheplater »

ohugal wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 10:51 am Fantastic! It's also widely available in Europe, thus ending my quest for Dyna-Gro. Thanks!
Regarding the potassium sulfate, would the following product work: https://bionovanutrients.com/Bionova-K-20/10062Z?
Or perhaps this: https://www.aquascaper.be/en/potassium- ... k2so4.html?
What's the math behind this?
The first liquid product is not the right stuff. Use the second dry chemical Potassium Sulfate.

What math do you need? I can send you the Excel spreadsheet I made to do the calculations. PM your email address if you want it.
Jerry Smith
Bloomingdale, NJ
45 inches (114 cm) rain equivalent per year, approx. evenly spread per month
2012 USDA Hardiness Zone 6b: -5F to OF (-20C to -18C) min.
OWgave
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Re: Looking For Dyna-Gro All-Pro 7-7-7 Replacement

Post by OWgave »

Hello Steve and Jerry-

Is there a particular brand/manufacturer do you folks recommend that should be use for Potassium sulfate 0-0-52 portion of this mixture?

Thank you.

OWgave
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Re: Looking For Dyna-Gro All-Pro 7-7-7 Replacement

Post by jerrytheplater »

You don't have to worry about the brand of chemical you buy. You don't need to buy Reagent purity at maybe $30.00 per 500 grams. I use Potassium Sulfate crystals made for professional greenhouse growers, for hydroponics. It is cleaner and won't clog spray nozzles. But I get it in 50 lb bags to resell to members of my Aquatic Gardening club for use in fertilizing aquarium plants.

Steve posted a link in the past where he gets his, I think in 1/2 lb bags.

There are a few small resellers of fertilizing chemicals that cater to the aquarium hobby. They usually sell it in pound quantities. Here is one link, I don't buy from these companies since I get it much cheaper. (And I've just found my links to most of those sites don't work and can't search more right now.) They most likely will not sell out of the USA. But, search in your own country for Aquatic Gardening sites and you'll probably come up with it in your own country.

https://aquariumfertilizer.com/ Potassium Sulfate $5.00 per pound plus shipping.
Jerry Smith
Bloomingdale, NJ
45 inches (114 cm) rain equivalent per year, approx. evenly spread per month
2012 USDA Hardiness Zone 6b: -5F to OF (-20C to -18C) min.
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ohugal
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Re: Looking For Dyna-Gro All-Pro 7-7-7 Replacement

Post by ohugal »

So it's basically:
1 gallon of water + 3,5 ml Flora Micro + 3,5 ml Flora Bloom + 7 grams 0-0-52 potassium sulfate.
When not storing a stock of diluted potassium sulfate, but rather adding it on the go, is distilled water, R/O water or rain water of importance? I acidify my tap water to 5,5 with oak extract (sulfuric acid).
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Re: Looking For Dyna-Gro All-Pro 7-7-7 Replacement

Post by jerrytheplater »

ohugal wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 8:08 pm So it's basically:
1 gallon of water + 3,5 ml Flora Micro + 3,5 ml Flora Bloom + 7 grams 0-0-52 potassium sulfate.
When not storing a stock of diluted potassium sulfate, but rather adding it on the go, is distilled water, R/O water or rain water of importance? I acidify my tap water to 5,5 with oak extract (sulfuric acid).
NO!!! (Not angry, but don't want you to make the mistake) You don't add 7 grams of Potassium Sulfate to the solution you are using to fertilize your plants. I know I did calculate the actual amount of Potassium Sulfate being added to the 1 US gal (3.785 l) for someone in a thread in this Forum, but I forget where. I am pretty sure it is something like 0.03 grams, certainly a number beyond what most of us can weigh with assurance.

What I showed Steve was a way to use a stock solution of Potassium Sulfate and then taking a small part of it to add to your fertilizer. Its a way to obtain a small amount of Potassium Sulfate without having an expensive balance capable of reading to 0.001 gram.

After typing the above I decided to do the calculation over for you without looking at my spreadsheet or notes, just using what Steve says he uses, based on what I showed him. (I have been clearing out of work because of retirement and all my stuff from work and home are in a total disarray. I really can't find any papers right now.) To top it off, I got sick and was not even able to be at work on the day I was supposed to retire, so now I have to go in next week to finish clearing out. I still have a few aquariums to break down....

7 gm Potassium Sulfate in 1 US gal or 128 fluid ounces. Steve uses 5 fluid ounces. (7/128)*5 = 0.2734 gm Potassium Sulfate in each gallon of fertilizer being mixed up. (My memory is off by an order of magnitude!). So if you have a way to weigh 0.27 gram accurately, you can add the dry fertilizer to the mix you are making. But, you may find that each granule of fertilizer will weigh too much and throw your measurement off. You could grind the fertilizer in a mortar and pestle and get a finer powder, but it is so much easier to make a stock solution and use portions from it.

If the 1 gallon stock solution is too much volume for you to store, you could use 3.5 grams in 1/2 gallon, or 1.75 gram in 1 quart, but now you are getting to the finer weights and your scale may throw you off. The stock solution will grow algae in it if kept for too long in the light.

Just curious Ohugal, what system of weights and volumes do you use in Belgium? Metric or something else?
Jerry Smith
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45 inches (114 cm) rain equivalent per year, approx. evenly spread per month
2012 USDA Hardiness Zone 6b: -5F to OF (-20C to -18C) min.
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Re: Looking For Dyna-Gro All-Pro 7-7-7 Replacement

Post by jerrytheplater »

ohugal wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 8:08 pm When not storing a stock of diluted potassium sulfate, but rather adding it on the go, is distilled water, R/O water or rain water of importance? I acidify my tap water to 5,5 with oak extract (sulfuric acid).
Sorry I missed this question before. Why DI or RO or rain water? They do not contain calcium or magnesium, which most tap water contains. Those are the elements that contribute to the hardness of your water. Mostly in tap water they will be found as carbonates. The Ca and Mg will react with the Phosphates to form an insoluble precipitate, seen as a white cloudiness which will settle out. Your acidification will remove the carbonates, but the Ca and Mg will remain. If you are using Sulfuric acid, the Ca will form Calcium Sulfate or Gypsum, which is also insoluble. The Mg will form magnesium sulfate, which is soluble and also known as Epsom Salts. That Mg will still be available to react with the phosphates in your fertilizer. Do you see cloudiness forming in your water when adding Sulfuric acid to the tap water? If so, decant off water after letting it settle till it clears and add some of the fertilizer containing the phosphates, the middle number in the fertilizer analysis, to the decanted water and see if you get a second formation of white cloudiness. That would be insoluble Magnesium phosphate forming.

Its a lot easier to use rain water or RO if you have one. Or purchase DI water if you only have a few plants.

Further question: you said you use Oak extract to acidify your water. But you put sulfuric acid in parentheses. I would expect Oak extract to be a Tannic acid containing solution without any sulfuric. Which are you using?
Jerry Smith
Bloomingdale, NJ
45 inches (114 cm) rain equivalent per year, approx. evenly spread per month
2012 USDA Hardiness Zone 6b: -5F to OF (-20C to -18C) min.
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Steve Johnson
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Re: Looking For Dyna-Gro All-Pro 7-7-7 Replacement

Post by Steve Johnson »

ohugal wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 8:08 pmI acidify my tap water to 5,5 with oak extract (sulfuric acid).
As Jerry brought up, I do believe that oak extract contains Tannic acid. Not sure if that's good for cactus and succulent roots -- I acidify my tap water with 5% white vinegar, so you may want to go with that instead. If you have a large collection, you can also acidify with citric acid -- unlike sulfuric acid that requires very careful handling, citric acid is perfectly safe for home use. Since you live in Belgium, my guess is that your watering container is measured in liters. If so, how many liters?
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ohugal
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Re: Looking For Dyna-Gro All-Pro 7-7-7 Replacement

Post by ohugal »

I use the metric system, so I measure in liters. It's easy to convert though using a program.

To acidify I use a product called JBL pH-Minus (https://www.jbl.de/?mod=products&func=d ... en&id=2325). I reported on my findings with it here: viewtopic.php?t=43525&start=45. It says it contains oak extract and is phosphate free. The safety data sheet mentions sulphuric acid. I use it because it is compact and I thought, if it's safe for fish it must be for plants. I did not observe any cloudiness when mixing it with water.
In the meanwhile I can start an experiment with 5% white vinegar. Don't you need a lot more to receive similar results?

At a certain point I will install a barrel to capture the rainwater from my roof, but that's not for now. I have about +40 plants, the biggest being a Disocactus flagelliformis and a Beaucarnea recurvata. In summer I use up to about 3,5/4 liters to water them. Distilled water here is quite expensive. I've heard of R/O water, but never looked into it. For now it's tap water.

I can store a stock solution of potassium sulfate in the basement. It's dark most of the time and the temperature doesn't fluctuate as hard as in the rest of the house. I have a scale with is 0,1 gram accurate. In this case I could use distilled water. How much of the stock solution do you add to the nutrient solution? Just to be sure I calculate correctly, you are working with US gallons, correct?

Funny enough, I just received a message from a company in Norway they can ship me the Dyna-Gro. :lol:

@JTP: I hope you have nice retirement!

The help is very much appreciated. Thanks!
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