I think my soilless mix dries to fast for my opuntia

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Mizu
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I think my soilless mix dries to fast for my opuntia

Post by Mizu »

Good morning, my cacti have been kept indoors for the winter with grow lamps because Canadian winter are deadly to my plants. Unfortunately, the coldest the house would get is 20C/68F so I'm pretty sure none of them went dormant. I noticed that my cacti can go more than a month or two without water and they all look fine except for my opuntia. I'm using bonsai jack succulent mix, which works great but after only a week the opuntia gets droopy and starts to wrinkle.

Should I just water it more often than the rest of my collection or should I add something that retains a little more moisture to my bonsai jack soil?
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SDK1
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Re: I think my soilless mix dries to fast for my opuntia

Post by SDK1 »

Honestly, neither. I know there's a lot of talk on this forum about lightly watering plants through winter to keep the fine roots alive but I'm going to be a contrarian and say don't worry too much about it. To be clear are you talking about Opuntia humifusa? Bc that's the only Opuntia I've kept over the years and it gets wrinkly over winter, regardless of whether I keep it outside or inside. Opuntias, by and large, love heat so 68 is honestly a bit on the cool side as far as daytime temps go. Plus, while temps can be an important factor in inducing dormancy, it's not the only factor. If you've kept your light schedule to 10 hours or less of being on and restricted watering, then I think there's a solid chance your opuntia is at least flirting with the idea of dormancy. Dormancy isn't an on/off switch anyway, it exists on a spectrum. I'd just let the thing get wrinkly and not worry about it.
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Mizu
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Re: I think my soilless mix dries to fast for my opuntia

Post by Mizu »

SDK1 wrote: Fri Mar 31, 2023 2:23 pm Honestly, neither. I know there's a lot of talk on this forum about lightly watering plants through winter to keep the fine roots alive but I'm going to be a contrarian and say don't worry too much about it. To be clear are you talking about Opuntia humifusa? Bc that's the only Opuntia I've kept over the years and it gets wrinkly over winter, regardless of whether I keep it outside or inside. Opuntias, by and large, love heat so 68 is honestly a bit on the cool side as far as daytime temps go. Plus, while temps can be an important factor in inducing dormancy, it's not the only factor. If you've kept your light schedule to 10 hours or less of being on and restricted watering, then I think there's a solid chance your opuntia is at least flirting with the idea of dormancy. Dormancy isn't an on/off switch anyway, it exists on a spectrum. I'd just let the thing get wrinkly and not worry about it.
It's Opuntia microdasys.
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ohugal
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Re: I think my soilless mix dries to fast for my opuntia

Post by ohugal »

I have a small O. microdasys (2 pads) and it hibernated in cool temperatures (5-8°C). It has been wrinkly since december or so and still is. Unless the conditions are right I would hold back on the watering. A picture of the plant in question could be usefull to see what you refer to as wrinkly...
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Mizu
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Re: I think my soilless mix dries to fast for my opuntia

Post by Mizu »

ohugal wrote: Fri Mar 31, 2023 7:50 pm I have a small O. microdasys (2 pads) and it hibernated in cool temperatures (5-8°C). It has been wrinkly since december or so and still is. Unless the conditions are right I would hold back on the watering. A picture of the plant in question could be usefull to see what you refer to as wrinkly...
I would but it's not droopy at the moment since it got a little water the other day. When I say droopy it starts leaning over and curling on itself to the point where I need something to prop it up. It also gets a darker shade of green when it starts doing that
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Mizu
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Re: I think my soilless mix dries to fast for my opuntia

Post by Mizu »

ohugal wrote: Fri Mar 31, 2023 7:50 pm I have a small O. microdasys (2 pads) and it hibernated in cool temperatures (5-8°C). It has been wrinkly since december or so and still is. Unless the conditions are right I would hold back on the watering. A picture of the plant in question could be usefull to see what you refer to as wrinkly...
This is NOT my picture but it bends just like that

Image
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7george
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Re: I think my soilless mix dries to fast for my opuntia

Post by 7george »

I'm using bonsai jack succulent mix, which works great but after only a week the opuntia gets droopy and starts to wrinkle.
For many Opuntia species this condition is rather normal winter time. Some even lay on the ground. Try to tie it to a support or find a colder spot around the walls or corners of the house. For the mix you can use vermiculite. But keeping mix wetter longer is worse then giving it some occasional sip. Some species may not like wet soil for long or will start growing and etiolating in winter.

P.S. O. microdasys can survive about one and half year full drought but will drop some pads dry. Also you can water it once a month and remove ugly growth in the spring.

Plus removing that moskito screen in winter will give you plants more light and health.
If your cacti mess in your job just forget about the job.
°C = (°F - 32)/1.8
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Mizu
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Re: I think my soilless mix dries to fast for my opuntia

Post by Mizu »

7george wrote: Sat Apr 08, 2023 9:05 pm
I'm using bonsai jack succulent mix, which works great but after only a week the opuntia gets droopy and starts to wrinkle.
For many Opuntia species this condition is rather normal winter time. Some even lay on the ground. Try to tie it to a support or find a colder spot around the walls or corners of the house. For the mix you can use vermiculite. But keeping mix wetter longer is worse then giving it some occasional sip. Some species may not like wet soil for long or will start growing and etiolating in winter.

P.S. O. microdasys can survive about one and half year full drought but will drop some pads dry. Also you can water it once a month and remove ugly growth in the spring.

Plus removing that moskito screen in winter will give you plants more light and health.
What do you mean by 'ugly growth'?
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MikeInOz
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Re: I think my soilless mix dries to fast for my opuntia

Post by MikeInOz »

Mizu wrote: Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:58 pm

What do you mean by 'ugly growth'?
I think George means that without perfect conditions (and sometimes even with perfect conditions) the pads on some Opuntias shrivel up either partially or fully leaving the plant looking miserable. These are of no use to the plant or the observer so you can cut them off when the weather is warm and dry and tidy it up. As for soil, I am of the opinion that many species do better with an old-school type soil than they do with newer more open mixes and extra feeding. An example of one of these mixes for Opuntia would be something like 2 parts good garden loam (it will have a little clay in it), 1 part gritty sand, 1 part coarse gravel with stone chips, 2 parts good compost or leaf mold or old cow maunure and 1 part crushed limestone or crushed shells or similar and if you have it some crushed charcoal. Holding off repotting for more than 2 years seems to stunt them as well. With microdasys and some others, it is probably a good idea to start new plants from cuttings and dispose of the old one when it looks tired. They always seem to get worse with age not better.
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Mizu
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Re: I think my soilless mix dries to fast for my opuntia

Post by Mizu »

MikeInOz wrote: Mon Apr 10, 2023 11:39 pm
Mizu wrote: Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:58 pm

What do you mean by 'ugly growth'?
I think George means that without perfect conditions (and sometimes even with perfect conditions) the pads on some Opuntias shrivel up either partially or fully leaving the plant looking miserable. These are of no use to the plant or the observer so you can cut them off when the weather is warm and dry and tidy it up. As for soil, I am of the opinion that many species do better with an old-school type soil than they do with newer more open mixes and extra feeding. An example of one of these mixes for Opuntia would be something like 2 parts good garden loam (it will have a little clay in it), 1 part gritty sand, 1 part coarse gravel with stone chips, 2 parts good compost or leaf mold or old cow maunure and 1 part crushed limestone or crushed shells or similar and if you have it some crushed charcoal. Holding off repotting for more than 2 years seems to stunt them as well. With microdasys and some others, it is probably a good idea to start new plants from cuttings and dispose of the old one when it looks tired. They always seem to get worse with age not better.
Thank you I'll repot it in a soil like the one you described
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7george
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Re: I think my soilless mix dries to fast for my opuntia

Post by 7george »

Opuntia microdasys is very hard to keep in decent shape indoors. Plant thrive outdoors under full sun.
Image

Adding to this glochids and size it reaches... we better chose something easier to manage in home conditions.
If your cacti mess in your job just forget about the job.
°C = (°F - 32)/1.8
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Mizu
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Re: I think my soilless mix dries to fast for my opuntia

Post by Mizu »

7george wrote: Sat Apr 15, 2023 1:45 am Opuntia microdasys is very hard to keep in decent shape indoors. Plant thrive outdoors under full sun.
Image

Adding to this glochids and size it reaches... we better chose something easier to manage in home conditions.
Unfortunately I have to bring it inside during winter cause it won't survive harsh canadian winter temps. It's also very small. Just one paddle with 3 baby paddles growing on top
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Steve Johnson
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Re: I think my soilless mix dries to fast for my opuntia

Post by Steve Johnson »

Mizu wrote: Sat Apr 15, 2023 5:37 pmUnfortunately I have to bring it inside during winter cause it won't survive harsh canadian winter temps. It's also very small. Just one paddle with 3 baby paddles growing on top.
As long as you have it outside for the spring-summer growing season, you should be fine. Just be aware of the fact that 7george made a good point about how big Opuntias can get, and I'm not sure if you'd want a big O. microdasys (or any other Opuntia for that matter) in your house during the winter. Your plant isn't nearly big enough yet, so IMO you have plenty of time to see if this becomes a problem.

While I respectfully disagree with MikeInOz about "old school" soil-based mixes being better than soil-less mixes for many species, I do agree that Opuntias and other Opuntioids (Tephrocactus, Puna, etc.) can't be supported in a soil-less mix due to their very fine fibrous root systems. I should know because I tried growing a Tephro inermis and a T. papyracanthus in a hydroponic pumice and granite gravel mix. Changing from a heavy soil mix in 2011 to the hydroponic mix in 2012 did wonders for a lot of my cacti, but the Tephros didn't like it at all. After I moved them to a 50% soil/50% pumice mix in 2013, they perked up immediately, and they've been growing well ever since. Getting shriveled and "pruney" in winter is normal for desert cacti (Including Opuntioids) -- once their roots come out of winter dormancy and wake up in the spring, they'll plump up with watering.
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Mizu
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Re: I think my soilless mix dries to fast for my opuntia

Post by Mizu »

Steve Johnson wrote: Sat Apr 15, 2023 7:30 pm
Mizu wrote: Sat Apr 15, 2023 5:37 pmUnfortunately I have to bring it inside during winter cause it won't survive harsh canadian winter temps. It's also very small. Just one paddle with 3 baby paddles growing on top.
As long as you have it outside for the spring-summer growing season, you should be fine. Just be aware of the fact that 7george made a good point about how big Opuntias can get, and I'm not sure if you'd want a big O. microdasys (or any other Opuntia for that matter) in your house during the winter. Your plant isn't nearly big enough yet, so IMO you have plenty of time to see if this becomes a problem.

While I respectfully disagree with MikeInOz about "old school" soil-based mixes being better than soil-less mixes for many species, I do agree that Opuntias and other Opuntioids (Tephrocactus, Puna, etc.) can't be supported in a soil-less mix due to their very fine fibrous root systems. I should know because I tried growing a Tephro inermis and a T. papyracanthus in a hydroponic pumice and granite gravel mix. Changing from a heavy soil mix in 2011 to the hydroponic mix in 2012 did wonders for a lot of my cacti, but the Tephros didn't like it at all. After I moved them to a 50% soil/50% pumice mix in 2013, they perked up immediately, and they've been growing well ever since. Getting shriveled and "pruney" in winter is normal for desert cacti (Including Opuntioids) -- once their roots come out of winter dormancy and wake up in the spring, they'll plump up with watering.
Hello I already switched it to 50/50 like you said. Fingers crossed! Thank you for your help
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