They could be more welcoming

[lancer99]

There's regular wringing of hands in the CSSA editorials about how hard it is to bring new folks in.

A general suggestion: burn cactus-mall.com to the ground and start from scratch.

My local chapter (NCCSS) has a slightly better website, but only slightly.

Perso, I haven't attended any NCCSS meetings. I've gone to all of NCCSS's plant sales for the last three years, and every time I've had a question, it was either difficult or impossible to get anyone's attention, since they were all busy talking amongst themselves. If that's any indication of what NCCSS meetings are like, no thanks.

You might think that an email to the NCCSS where someone mentioned that they only had about 100 cacti but was interested in joining might be answered...but you'd be wrong.

In summary:

1) A website that isn't very inviting

2) Being ignored in person...not very inviting

3) Being ignored via email...not very inviting

Yes, I am taking this a bit personally But if my experience is in any way typical of other CSSA chapters, it's no wonder they're dying a slow death.

-R

[Ocotillo]

I am taking this a bit personally But if my experience is in any way typical of other CSSA chapters, it's no wonder they're dying a slow death.

That definitely strikes a chord with me. Local CSS is composed of a great bunch of people who have all known each other for years and years. (Maybe even decades)

But that only emphasizes the degree to which new people are outsiders. Personally, I got tired of introducing myself to the same group of people month after month, year after year.

[lancer99]

[/quote="Ocotillo"
That definitely strikes a chord with me. Local CSS is composed of a great bunch of people who have all known each other for years and years. (Maybe even decades)

But that only emphasizes the degree to which new people are outsiders. [/quote]

I hear ya!

So why does CSSA continue to be so blind and sucky? Why on cssainc.org, instead of just "Cactus and Succulent Journal March-April 2011 is now published" isn't there a "sneak peek" feature so you can view a few pages of what's in that issue? Why aren't a few of the shorter articles published online as teasers for the print magazine? Why isn't there an option for a web subscription?

It's all done, as they used to say, "digitally."

Why doesn't CSSA do any outreach? When I bring my few flowering cactus plants to the retirement home where I volunteer (they don't like Euphorbias much ) they love seeing the cactus blooms.

Why doesn't CSSA have a twitter feed? Perso I'd love to hear "Gymno baldianum in flower in #NoVaCactus" so I could say, "okay, maybe mine next week."

The CSSA folks seem mired in the past, with no idea of how to promote CSSA either in traditional media or the new media. It's a huge failure of imagination on their part.

-R

[daiv]

Robert,
I think you made an error in your first post. You put "cactus-mall.com", but I think you were referring to the old CSSA website.

Also, the mixing with local people isn't really connected to the CSSA. The local clubs are affiliates, not branches.

I have had good experience in the OC club and knowing what it is like to be new, I always tried to be open and welcoming to other new people.

My recent experience at the CSSA conference in San Diego was quite positive. Fun to meet lots of new people there.

All that said, I've approached the CSSA about their website and it sounds like they've really got a can of worms on their hands. I agree scrapping the old site and starting a new one would be the way to go. I would definitely like to see the society get a website with more features.

[lancer99]

No, I meant to say cactus-mall.com. It was great in its time, about 15 years ago, as a central clearing point for lots of C&S sites.

Time marches on, but that site doesn't. And lots of sites that hang off of it have adopted the same lazy, antiquated web presence that it has.

I didn't mean to imply that all CSSA affiliates/branches (I didn't know there was a difference) make non-members feel like unwelcome outsiders, just that NCCSS does.

And I'll say it again...there is a profound lack of imagination on the part of the CSSA folks as to how to promote their brand.


-R

[daiv]

OK, however Cactus-Mall is not owned/operated by the CSSA. It is the personal property of Tony Mace. So who is this comment directed to?

A general suggestion: burn cactus-mall.com to the ground and start from scratch.

Cactus-Mall is really just a host (resold server space), and the website by that name is Tony's personal creation, not under the control of the CSSA.

An affiliate associates with the larger organization, but is not controlled by it. The CSSA has no authority over its affiliates. Branches, on the other hand, are governed by the central organization.

So you are confusing your experience with three independent entities (cactus-mall, NCCSS, CSSA) and coming to a singular conclusion about one of them (CSSA).

Note: I'm not saying that any of your conclusions are valid or invalid, but that your case is not stated clearly. As it is posted publicly, the above information is as much for you as for on-lookers.

[lancer99]

daiv,

I take your point. It was wrong of me to confuse three separate entities. I didn't mean to imply that there was any connection between cactus-mall.com and CSSA, other than a link from cactus-mall to the CSSA website.

The point I was trying to make (not very well, apparently ) is that there's a perception, which I think is true, is that the population of cactus & succulent enthusiasts is aging, with little or no "new blood," and that part of the problem is that the various entities that are most well-placed to deal with that problem aren't doing a very good job.

So let me make three separate points, all related to the above:

1. Cactus-mall.com does act as a central information point, containing as it does links to many resources, including cactus & succulent societies and branches/affiliates. Its antiquated (in internet terms) look is unappealing.

2. The CSSA website is better, but they do a poor job of promoting and making accessible their main marketing tool, the CSSA journal. Most potential subscribers these days would expect at least a "sneak peek" before subscribing. That's characteristic of their lack of imagination in promoting the society.

3. The members of my local CSSA affiliate (did I get it right this time? ) aren't very welcoming.

So, three separate entities, all well-positioned to encourage enthusiasm about growing cacti & succulents, but aren't doing so.

Yes, I'm being critical, and I know a lot of people don't like that. And yes, sometimes my arguments are a bit unsubtle . But I've also offered suggestions on how to improve things, certainly in terms of CSSA.

One further suggestion: that local societies put together a brief (10-15 min.) presentation on C&S, aimed at school kids. With a few plants in flower to show, as well as little plants to give to the kids, I think this would be a very effective means of outreach. "Get'em while they're young"

-R

[Buck Hemenway]

The first thing to know is that no one person who has anything to do with the management of CSSA likes our web site. The issue is that we made a contract with an outside source a few years ago who built the entire site on a framework that was experimental and has never been adopted to main stream web site construction. We have tried to hire someone able to maintain and update the site in it's current format, but have been unsuccessful. At present, the site is being completely reconstructed using a framework which is being used by more people in the industry. When it is done, we'll be able to make the site more interactive and give it more promotional life, such as putting sample articles up monthly. At least 6 more months of complaints such as Robert's will ensue.

Robert's issue regarding local clubs are ongoing points of discussion at every specialty organization, regardless of whether or not they are cactus clubs.

1. Welcoming of new members/guests. This is a non-stop issue that plagues every club. At our local clubs, we are have several devices to make sure that people who attend meetings feel welcomed. We have greeters who sign all attendees in and act as focal points for questions and general information. We introduce signed in guests and give them free plants at every meeting. We ask our members to wear their name badges so guests and new members can address them by name. There are vendors selling plants where a new person can ask questions and thus become engaged. At one club, we are considering making temporary "guest" name badges, but are concerned that people might feel stigamtized.
The real issue is that a new person walks in to a room full of people who see each other once a month snd are "catching up" and feels like an outsider.

2. That outsider feelig is a real issue, and if anyone has any good ideas, I'd love to hear them.

3. Nearly every local club in the United States is growing. That's a fact, no matter what Robert thinks. And not in small percantages. The two that I am actively involved in are up from 60 to 107 and from 90 to 210 from 2006 until now. I update the CSSA web site's affiliated clubs pages and can tell you that they are almost all growing.

Promotion of the CSSA is not an easy task. We obviously have a built in audience of members of local affiliates, but finding people in Falls Church, VA who want to participate is daunting to say the least. All I can say is that the Journal of the Society is well on its way to healing itself and that is our only tool of communication, other than the web site, which is not.

[hob]

No, I meant to say cactus-mall.com. It was great in its time, about 15 years ago, as a central clearing point for lots of C&S sites.

Time marches on, but that site doesn't. And lots of sites that hang off of it have adopted the same lazy, antiquated web presence that it has.

I didn't mean to imply that all CSSA affiliates/branches (I didn't know there was a difference) make non-members feel like unwelcome outsiders, just that NCCSS does.

And I'll say it again...there is a profound lack of imagination on the part of the CSSA folks as to how to promote their brand.


-R

ok i wondered where this topic was moved to

now i'm going to stick up for Tony Mace (whom i have no connection with)

first up Tony hosts this site at very reasonable rates

second cactus-mall.com. is about the single biggest international resource there is for our hobby.............OK its not the slickest fancy website on the net but it does the job it was designed to do

http://cactus-mall.com./

there are links to groups and societies there that slick search engines like google would take hours of filtering out the crap would be hard pressed to match

there are times when an out dated look is outweighed by content

try googling something and being buried by sponsored links to shoppadilly and such crap and you see what i mean

a website for the hobbiest does not need to be the slickest to be the best..........it just needs to exist

rant over

[lancer99]

hob, the point I was trying to make is that if you want younger people to join the hobby, a website that looks like it hasn't been updated since 1995 probably won't do it.

Buck, thx for your reply. I'm happy to be proven wrong about the membership numbers. It's weird that there's not more participation from this area, one of the most affluent in the country, so you'd think the local folks would have plenty of time for leisure activities.

As for the "outsider"/"insider" thing, I think that's really hard. I've been an "insider" in a salt water aquarium club for a long time, and of course I want to talk to my friends and gossip, rather than talk to the newbies. We struggle with the same issues. We always have freebies (like your free cactus) that anyone can take, and that seems to be pretty effective.

I wonder if it's a good idea to sign people in. That seems a bit coercive.

I DO think the CSSA folks (or their affiliates) are singularly unimaginative when it comes to outreach. For example, there are thousands of local community organizations whose proceedings are mostly dull (certainly, mine is), and I can't imagine that they wouldn't invite a short presentation on xerophytic plants and how to reduce water use...maybe with a brief mention of the sponsor and its publication.

-R

[Buck Hemenway]

Thanks Robert.

I am a firm proponent of the sign in deal. It formalizes the guest's attendance and gives the leader of the group a chance to introduce that person to the group as a whole, thus increasing the chance that someone will open up to them.

I speak to garden clubs and community groups all of the time. I know it makes a difference, but as far as direct involvement in the hobby, my best tool is this web site.

By far the most effective tool available to the hobby in general are our shows. That is where people who have no idea of the breadth of plants in the "succulent" world come face to face with our fantastic plants. The CSSA page on Facebook is landing us a number of new pariticpants, for example.