Growing Echinocactus Polycephalus (Any advice?)

[Nexuswalker]

Hey all,

I am relatively new to the world of cacti and very amateur in the art of growing them from seed. In my haste to find and try to grow pink cacti I ordered some Echinocactus Polycephalus seeds. I then found out these cacti have a reputation for being hard to cultivate :S

I am interested to hear from people who have experience growing this cacti from seed (what worked and what didn't) and also please let me know what type of climate you live in as I know this is very important.

I live in Central Queensland in Australia, it is a humid and relatively warm spot of the world in which I find most cacti grow great. The rainfall is somewhat higher than most deserts (especially the Sonoran and Mojave of which this species is from) although my outdoor garden is in a rocky outcrop on top of a hill with amazingly well draining soil.

Lincoln

[peterb]

Welcome. This will be something of a challenge, but a few basics will help. Keep very warm (about 88F) and moist until germination of a good portion of the seed has taken place, about half or so. Then begin to let dry out at regular intervals. Provide good light. Sow in very gritty, mineral mix with absolutely no organics. Go easy on them and don't try to push them. They are from areas of biseasonal rains, so if it is warm during the day in winter they like some water from time to time. The deserts where they are from are cool to cold with light frosts overnight and much warmer days in winter. Then the summers are very hot indeed, with warm nights. They burst into growth in the spring and are dormant most of the summer, apart from flowering. They are relatively slow from seed but develop beautiful spines in strong light.

hope this helps, keep us posted,

peterb

[Nexuswalker]

Wow, thanks heaps Peter, this is excellent information, very comprehensive, thanks for taking the time to reply.

I understand this is quite a challenge (especially for an amateur grower!) but now that I am armed with the right info I have an infinitely better chance. One question though, how big should I let them get before I am able to plant some in the dirt? I expect this will take ages as I just found out how slow growing these cacti tend to be asking this question on another forum.

Lincoln

[iann]

about half or so

I like that Optimism! Your first task is to even germinate them. I'm happy to get 10% germination. My best ever is 50%. Seed is pretty much always from habitat, so best not to ask too many questions about how it got into Australia Habitat seed never germinates 100%, for all sorts of reasons. Ssp xeranthemoides germinates better, more or less like any other cactus. You'll know if you have it because the seeds are small and shiny rather than looking like little glittery pieces of coal.

There are all sorts of tips on how to improve the germination, but nothing I've tried has been better than dumb luck. Certainly they like it warm, 30C rather than 20C, but no need for the extreme heat that I've seen suggested. One thing I would say is that if you get nothing in 2-3 weeks then let it dry out and try again later. Much later! One batch of very fresh seed I tried gave nothing after a month, but then came up like cress six months later.

Treat the babies like any other cactus, warm and moist. Maybe brighter light than most, they can survive my full sun immediately although best to wait for a few months. I think they switch over to the (unusual) adult growth style after about a year, or maybe two. Until then they aren't too difficult. Not sure how they'll do with your summer though. Once they turn a nice blue-green colour then they are ready for dry summer baking and winter water. Or maybe the dry baking is what ripens them to blue? Green ones are still babies and not quite ready for a rocky hillside in Death Valley. Yellowish or brownish is not good, but I'm not entirely sure how you fix them. Less water is always good

You might have to just treat the adults as winter growers. They won't grow anyway when it is hot, and watering them in summer other than very occasionally will just kill them. They aren't designed for "steamy". If you can arrange nice sunny days of perhaps 25C and nights below 10C they'll grow like crazy. They are quite happy to be watered when it is below freezing at night. They produce pretty long roots. I'd suggest giving them a decent amount of room because they like to be moist for long periods when they are in their late winter sweet spot, but never let them stay wet for long if it is hot. Probably one piece of advice that Peter forgot to mention: don't grow them in organic soil. Dirt and rocks is good

[peterb]

yes, excellent info also. From Mesa Garden, I usually only get 20-30% germination, you are correct Ian. I was being optimistic indeed.

I have a problem with them rotting if I keep them too moist after germination, and they stay around longer if I start letting them completely dry out about ten days after they come up.

No organics! I said that above.

as for when they can be planted in the dirt, probably at about 5-7 years or so, although you may want to keep them in terra cotta pots to control water better. They do not grow as landscaping plants in any habitat very far removed from their native haunts.

peterb

[peterb]

For reference, here's one that's 4 years old in a 2.25 inch pot. It had a very slow start, so is about 18 months behind. Note that it is now in summer dormancy already, just sleeping.

peterb

[iann]

This is one cactus I don't think you'll be able to ever grow in the ground outdoors where you are. To much rain in summer. You might struggle with it in any case due to lack of cold winter nights.

[promethean_spark]

Can always graft it, I have one about the size of a golf ball on trichocereus bridgesii - then it needs no special care and grows 10x faster.

[Nexuswalker]

Cheers Iaan and promethean,
Your plant looks nice and healthy Peter, good job!

Too bad about them probably not being able to withstand my high rainfall, hopefully I will get enough plants to trial some of them outdoors and see if they can adapt, probably not but worth a shot, and I was planning on grafting some to try and speed up growth and reduce care needs, but wasn't really sure what to graft it to except the standard rootstocks. I will try grafting one or two to some of my T.Bridgesii plants

[peterb]

I guarantee that the plants will not adapt to your climate in the ground. I looked up some weather data. Remember that polycephalus comes from extremely xeric locales, some with 5 inches of rain or less per year, with extremely low relative humidity. You will be better off keeping them in terra cotta pots and moving them out of the rain. E. polycephalus is one of those very narrowly adapted cacti that really does not have wide tolerances for climates too different from where it grows.

peterb

[iann]

Here's what you might get from a packet of ssp xeranthemoides. Supposed to be 10 seeds but I think there might have been more

xeranthemoides-110612.jpg (99 KiB) Viewed 3248 times

Here's what you might expect from a packet of ssp polycephalus Seriously, if one is all you get then be happy because it could have been none!

polycephalus-110612.jpg (101.28 KiB) Viewed 3248 times

Those two pots germinated last winter so they're about 6 months old. They live in my greenhouse in full sun but as you can see they're just about tolerating it in England, probably not where you are.

This is one from the winter before. No problem with the English sun now, but still not fully ripened off. The red growth is from this spring, maybe four or five areoles. That will probably be it for this year, they'll just expand to full size but there won't be any more.

polycephalus-110612a.jpg (58.36 KiB) Viewed 3248 times

The next three are all ssp xeranthemoides, all three years old, and they all live on the top shelf for maximum sun and heat. The first is doing OK but still slightly stressed by the sun. It should be just growing out of it and the new growth looks a good colour.

xeranthemoides-110612a.jpg (66.38 KiB) Viewed 3248 times

This one is not happy. It isn't even bothering to go red and hasn't produced any new growth this spring. It gets fat when I water but tt might not survive.

xeranethmoides-110612b.jpg (60.54 KiB) Viewed 3248 times

This is what you want them to look like. Nice blue-green colour, not even a hint of sun stress, and a handful of new areoles in spring. I'm happy to get three new areoles a year on adult plants.

xeranthemoides-110612c.jpg (57.31 KiB) Viewed 3248 times

If all else fails, try E. parryi. Looks the same but much easier. My 11th sprout from 10 seeds just appeared today and I'm not even surprised

[Nexuswalker]

Thanks everyone for the advice although I didn't get to read all of it until today thanks too a bout in hospital :/ and cheers heaps for the advice on my climate Peter!, I knew it was too much rain but didn't realise just how "un-adaptable" these cacti are, I came back from hospital expecting to see maybe one of the 30 or so seeds I put in germinated, but sadly this hasn't happened, admittedly I put about 5 in organic matter because I wanted to try everything before I received advice from here. Also these were put on a heat mat in a fish tank with all the other necessary conditions.

I think that my seeds are just plainly too fresh atm so if there is nothing in a week or so they will be stored for future germination.
Also "My 11th sprout from 10 seeds just appeared today and I'm not even surprised " HAHAHAHA that is great Iaan. Cheers for the laugh and I might give parryi a go!

[kuni1234567]

I have been growing E. polycephalus clusters for three years. The largest plant produced one large yellow flower. The two smaller plants produced new spines and no flowers. I grow them outside in clay pots and water them until the summer months but, I know they receive rain from thunderstorms in the July and August. I believe that most plants are grown in greenhouses and the humidity is too high. I also believe that air circulation and sunlight is very important when growing these plants.