Echinocereus weedinii

[cortez753]

What is the right name for Echinocereus weedinii? E. russanthus v. weedinii, E. varidiflorus v. weedinii, or just E. weedinii.

[hoteidoc]

Yes - pick your flavor; do you want simple or erudite? Went thru the taxonomy games 1st 1/3 of my life (3 different fields, professional & amateur). Now it's what do I like. Unfortunately to "communicate", you're probably going to have to learn all of them, because you've got "old-timers", newbies, taxonomists, commercial nursery's, lumpers, splitters; then you can wait 20 yrs. & it'll be back to where you started (wherever that was ) Myself - I've got seedlings of weedinii, but I bought from 2 sources -- E. russanthus & E. varidiflorus Desert-Tropical is my best website for listing endless synonyms!

[cortez753]

Lol! I had a feeling it would be like that! I guess I'll go with the label it came with.

[A. Dean Stock]

The best dicussion of the taxonomic relationships of the group including Echinocereus weedinii is given in The Cacti of the Trans Pecos & Adjacent Areas by Powell and Weedin 2004, They discuss the taxonomic history of this taxon including the studies by Blum et al. 1998. Powell and Weedin include weedinii as a variety of E. viridiflorus. That is how I treat it at present. Plant taxonomy is a science and as such it changes as new data and new treatments are advanced. The progress is not linear since not all plant taxonomists are equal in their treatment of a group. The best plan is to recognize the most recent taxonomic treatment if done by a well trained person experienced with the group in question. Yes, it may change in 5 years but that is the way science progresses. To infer that taxonomy is just what you want it to be is to not understand how the science of any field works.
Dean

[Arjen]

here we go again...

[peterb]

I'd be interested in parsing the "small flowered Echinocereus group" with a little more detail than Powell and Weedin brought to it. They lost Echinocereus chloranthus and Echinocereus russanthus as species and that created a very broad concept of viridiflorus, a single species in their treatment with 12 varieties. This may prove to be a lasting concept, but imo the jury is still out. From their book: "One distinguished cactus specialist recently called the E. viridiflorus complex a "real can of worms," a tongue-in-cheek reference to the widely recognized morphological and populational variability, apparent intergradation, and resulting taxonomic uncertainty involving especially the Trans-Pecos members of the complex."

Powell and Weedin's very thorough and detailed treatment of this group as far as it is present in the Trans-Pecos takes up 21 pages.

Traditionally, weedinii is most familiar as Echinocereus russanthus var. (or subsp.) weedinii. It has never been described as its own species. Whether one follows Blum et al and retains russanthus at the species level or goes with the more recent Powell and Weedin and calls the plant Echinocereus viridiflorus var. weedinii, it is a spectacular plant to grow! Beautiful spines and remarkable flowers.

peterb

[hoteidoc]

" it is a spectacular plant to grow! Beautiful spines and remarkable flowers." Or a rose by any other name... Which is why when I 1st ran across this plant in Leo Chance's Cacti & Succulents for Cold Climates, I had to get! Have 2 in pots -- 1 to "hope" outside in-ground this Summer & a tub of seedlings started this past Fall. As usual, blossoms are just a bonus

[cortez753]

"Cacti & Succulents for Cold Climates" Great book! That's where I first ran across it too! I just bought me a zone 5 seedling a month ago from Kelly Grummons. He listed it as E. varidiflorus v. weedinii.

[peterb]

I'll be interested to hear from anyone keeping it alive outside in zone 5. Mesa Garden rates it hardy down to about 10F. My experience has been that they are tender unless absolutely bone dry and in low atmospheric humidity.

peterb

[hoteidoc]

Pretty much what I remember from Chance's book & hence the backup potted plant. Always looking for that "mutant" that can tolerate huge amounts of moisture!

[Saxicola]

The best dicussion of the taxonomic relationships of the group including Echinocereus weedinii is given in The Cacti of the Trans Pecos & Adjacent Areas by Powell and Weedin 2004, They discuss the taxonomic history of this taxon including the studies by Blum et al. 1998. Powell and Weedin include weedinii as a variety of E. viridiflorus. That is how I treat it at present. Plant taxonomy is a science and as such it changes as new data and new treatments are advanced. The progress is not linear since not all plant taxonomists are equal in their treatment of a group. The best plan is to recognize the most recent taxonomic treatment if done by a well trained person experienced with the group in question. Yes, it may change in 5 years but that is the way science progresses. To infer that taxonomy is just what you want it to be is to not understand how the science of any field works.
Dean

Well put. I was going to write a similar response, but you did as well or better than me! Nothing annoys me more than the widespread belief that taxonomists don't know what they are doing and just toss names about on a whim. We work dang hard to try to understand a complex group of plants, usually delving deeply into arcane literature. Any good, professional, taxonomist is giving his best opinion at the time. If more evidence comes along later then he will do what any good scientist does, modify his opinion to match the available data.

[cortez753]

I'll be interested to hear from anyone keeping it alive outside in zone 5. Mesa Garden rates it hardy down to about 10F. My experience has been that they are tender unless absolutely bone dry and in low atmospheric humidity.

peterb

All of Kelly's cold hardy cacti are grown outside at Timberline Gardens Arvada, Co and his garden in Littleton, Co.
Steve Miles also grows it outside in Boulder, Co. The front range has relatively low humidity, an average of 360 days with full sunshine. Most of the moister stays in the mountains. Here is a newspaper article and picture of Steve Miles's Garden.

http://www.denverpost.com/headlines/ci_ ... z2wXAIIQSo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[DaveW]

This was what I grew as weedinii flowering only a few years from seed. I have another from the same batch more like Peter's since the spine colour seems variable.

weedinii.jpg (62.7 KiB) Viewed 1657 times

[peterb]

I am not familiar with spine color variants in weedinii. I was under the impression that it's characters are pretty consistent. I'd guess that your plant, while a great looking plant, has some other genes in it.

Peterb

[hoteidoc]

I was wondering the same, Peter -- my 2 (from different sources) have very golden spines. Pic is Chance's book were the same. Gut reaction was either reichenbachii or pectinatus. But definitely no "expert" either.