Propagation of asterias from seed

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Edwindwianto
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Re: Propagation of asterias from seed

Post by Edwindwianto »

Good evening Sir
Thanks for the explanation

Wow...the last picture (Hade-han) could loose it's variegation...wow...
It is usualy sold at more expensive price than the 1st photo...hahaha

Thanks to you Sir, now i'am aware of it

But let me ask you, how unstable is it?
In average, according to your exp, it will loose it's variegation in how many years?
Once it turned to 100% yellow/green, could it be green/variegated again?

Thanks

EDWIN
Last edited by Edwindwianto on Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Lea
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Re: Propagation of asterias from seed

Post by Lea »

Hanazono, I must say, you are a source of inspiration for me to grow some more Arios and Astros. Your plants are stunning and I envy you for your excellent growing skills!
I hope I will be as experienced as you one day.
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Hanazono
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Re: Propagation of asterias from seed

Post by Hanazono »

G'morning Edwin,
But let me ask you, how unstable is it?
In average, according to your exp, it will loose it's variegation in how many years?
Once it turned to 100% yellow/green, could it be green/variegated again?
The degree of variegation is change continuously but you never know when it will loose variegation.
It may never loose variegation.

The followings are my experience.
Asterias
Variegated to complete green: No experience
Variegated to complete yellow: Experienced, the cacti were very short life.

Ariocarpus
Variegated to complete green: Experienced many times,
Even if the body is green completely, varigated seedlings will germinate from harvested seeds.
Variegated to complete yellow: No experience
Green retun to variegated: No experience

Frank
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Edwindwianto
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Re: Propagation of asterias from seed

Post by Edwindwianto »

Hanazono wrote: Wed Feb 26, 2020 8:10 pm G'morning Edwin,

The degree of variegation is change continuously but you never know when it will loose variegation.
It may never loose variegation.

The followings are my experience.
Asterias
Variegated to complete green: No experience
Variegated to complete yellow: Experienced, (1) the cacti were very short life.

Ariocarpus
(2) Variegated to complete green: Experienced many times,
Even if the body is green completely, varigated seedlings will germinate from harvested seeds.

Variegated to complete yellow: No experience
Green retun to variegated: No experience

Frank
Good morning Sir

Thanks for the explanation

1) why didnt you graft it?

2) wow...thanks for the sharing Sir...now I aware...
Here there is one seller who sells variegated arios at very high price (most of them are retusus). I'am always tempted to buy one...hahaha without knowing that it could losse it's variegation...lucky for me, i haven't bought any and your info makes me aware...thanks again

Have you ever had red/orange variegation on astro?

Have a nice day
EDWIN
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Hanazono
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Re: Propagation of asterias from seed

Post by Hanazono »

Edwin,
1) why didnt you graft it?
Even if it was grafted, the life of yellow scion is short, 1~2 years.
Have you ever had red/orange variegation on astro?
I think it is not variegation. It is called khoyo which change body colour in season.
The body colur turns in red/orange in autumn to spring but it returns to green in summer.
I have a species, Astrophytum myriostigma v nudum cv kikkou, red bean khoyo.
I have kept may of them.

Please have a look photos.

Frank
https://cactiguide.com/forum/download/f ... w&id=74137
https://cactiguide.com/forum/download/f ... w&id=74138
Attachments
Very young A. myriostigma cv red bean khoyo
Very young A. myriostigma cv red bean khoyo
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A. myriostigma cv red bean khoyo
A. myriostigma cv red bean khoyo
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Edwindwianto
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Re: Propagation of asterias from seed

Post by Edwindwianto »

Hanazono wrote: Thu Feb 27, 2020 5:18 am (1) Even if it was grafted, the life of yellow scion is short, 1~2 years.

(2) I think it is not variegation. It is called khoyo which change body colour in season.
Good evening Sir
Thanks for the explanation
I have some question please

1) what do you mean?. Even though a yellow scion is grafted, it will still die in 1-2years?
- 1 or 2 years since what?
- do you mean, this yellow obregonia will also die?

2) no Sir...i mean the red variegation like this fissuratus var rubra?...or is it a khoyo too?

Thanks Sir

EDWIN
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Hanazono
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Re: Propagation of asterias from seed

Post by Hanazono »

G'morning Edwin,
1) what do you mean?. Even though a yellow scion is grafted, it will still die in 1-2years?
- 1 or 2 years since what?
- do you mean, this yellow obregonia will also die?
1-2 years after grafted.
I do not know exactly in relation to yellow obregonia life but it will not long.
In my case, it was yellow asterias and myriostigma.
The stock on the photo is Hylocereus. You need re-graft on a parmanet stock in future.
2) no Sir...i mean the red variegation like this fissuratus var rubra?...or is it a khoyo too?
Your question was:
Have you ever had red/orange variegation on astro?
It was Astrophytum, not Ariocarpus.

I just had 2 coloured Ariocarpus.
Variegated fisssuratus v lloydii
This one lost the variegation and turned to green body.

Khoyo scaphirostris
I failed to degraft/root and lost it.

Frank
https://cactiguide.com/forum/download/f ... w&id=74156
https://cactiguide.com/forum/download/f ... w&id=74157
https://cactiguide.com/forum/download/f ... w&id=74158
Attachments
variegated fissuratus v lloydii
variegated fissuratus v lloydii
renzan.JPG (20.88 KiB) Viewed 3250 times
Khoyo scaphirostris in winter
Khoyo scaphirostris in winter
P6080068.JPG (28.14 KiB) Viewed 3250 times
khoyo scaphirostris in summer
khoyo scaphirostris in summer
ryukaku.JPG (43.98 KiB) Viewed 3250 times
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Edwindwianto
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Re: Propagation of asterias from seed

Post by Edwindwianto »

Hanazono wrote: Thu Feb 27, 2020 9:33 pm G'morning Edwin,

(1)
1-2 years after grafted.
I do not know exactly in relation to yellow obregonia life but it will not long.
In my case, it was yellow asterias and myriostigma.
The stock on the photo is Hylocereus. You need re-graft on a parmanet stock in future.

(2)
2) no Sir...i mean the red variegation like this fissuratus var rubra?...or is it a khoyo too?
Your question was:
Have you ever had red/orange variegation on astro?
It was Astrophytum, not Ariocarpus.

I just had 2 coloured Ariocarpus.
Variegated fisssuratus v lloydii
This one lost the variegation and turned to green body.

Khoyo scaphirostris
I failed to degraft/root and lost it.

Frank
Good morning Sir

1) thanks for explanation
It makes me aware not to buy these yellow cacti
They cost a fortune and yet they will die

2) yes Sir
My "fissuratus var rubra" question was to make sure that we were talking about the same kind of "red"

My 1st question was about red on astro >>> your answer = khoyo

Then I my 2nd question was to point out, this kind of red on fissuratus var rubra that i was talking about
Because i always thought that red/orange color was permanent too, not seasonal x_x
So i asked you...this kind of "permanent" red on fissuratus var rubra, have you had it on your astros?

BTW...i'am still confused, Sir
So all red/orange are only seasonal color?

And does all scaphirostris (your example, but i'am also talking in general, any cacti) have this seasonal color or only certain individu have it?
I mean, some scaphirostris may have this color change and other scap may always be green all year around?

BTW...those would have been very beautiful prized collections, had the fissur not turned to green and had the scap not died

EDWIN
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Hanazono
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Re: Propagation of asterias from seed

Post by Hanazono »

Edwin,
So i asked you...this kind of "permanent" red on fissuratus var rubra, have you had it on your astros?
I have never kept permanent red body Astrophytum. I have never seen permanent red body Astrophytum.
I have seen permanent red body in Gymnocalycium and Ariocarpus but it is not in Astrophytum.
And does all scaphirostris (your example, but i'am also talking in general, any cacti) have this seasonal color or only certain individu have it?

Only Certain individual changes body colour in season.

Frank
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Edwindwianto
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Re: Propagation of asterias from seed

Post by Edwindwianto »

Hanazono wrote: Fri Feb 28, 2020 8:31 am Edwin,

I have never kept permanent red body Astrophytum. I have never seen permanent red body Astrophytum.
I have seen permanent red body in Gymnocalycium and Ariocarpus but it is not in Astrophytum.

Only Certain individual changes body colour in season.

Frank
Good morning Sir

Thanks for the explanation
Now I understand

EDWIN
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Hanazono
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Re: Propagation of asterias from seed

Post by Hanazono »

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Oibo ruri kabuto
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1st filial red flowering hanazono kabuto
1st filial red flowering hanazono kabuto
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2nd filial red flowering hanazono kabuto
2nd filial red flowering hanazono kabuto
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Aloinopsis
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Re: Propagation of asterias from seed

Post by Aloinopsis »

Do I understand correctly that kohyo plants are not "true" variegates because their color in fact changes seasonally (thus the name)?

Perhaps I do not understand the nature of kohyo.
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Hanazono
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Re: Propagation of asterias from seed

Post by Hanazono »

G'day Aloinopsis,
Do I understand correctly that kohyo plants are not "true" variegates because their color in fact changes seasonally (thus the name)?
Yes you are correct.
Khoyo is a Japanese word means autumn leaves.
Khoyo cacti turn the body colour in autumn as like autumn leaves.
Perhaps I do not understand the nature of kohyo.
I also am not sure the nature of khoyo.
I think there are no cacti to show this character in habitat.
In 1970s, Mr. Nakamura in Japan found a myriostigma v nudum turning its body colour to red in autumn.
Various colours were developed later and yellow, orange, red and chocolate are existing currently.

Frank
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Aloinopsis
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Re: Propagation of asterias from seed

Post by Aloinopsis »

Thank you. I have several seedlings that look like this, and I do not know if they are kohyo or simply deformed.

I planted them last spring and they were green and normal for about 8 months.
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Hanazono
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Re: Propagation of asterias from seed

Post by Hanazono »

G'morning Aloinopsis,
I have several seedlings that look like this, and I do not know if they are kohyo or simply deformed.
Your seedlings are still very young but I think it is not a khoyo.
It seems your myriostigma seedlings are mixed an other Astrophytum species.
The pale top colour may come from mixed gene issue.

Frank
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