Pachypodium pruning: suggestions are welcome

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nachtkrabb
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Re: Pachypodium pruning: suggestions are welcome

Post by nachtkrabb »

Well, somebody here grumbled quite a while ago that we with Pachypodiums should read books about "how to grow & care for bonsai".
So I have had a look at half a dozen such books at least, plus a couple of online-publications & you-tube-films. About 2working days lecture & looking! They all say,
* where you can buy plants to become bonsais or already bonsai (usually the online-guys advertise for selling or let other companies advertise),
* that you should definitely cut your bonsai,
* that you should do it frequently, e.g. on a weekly basis (how can it grow faster that you shear it, then?!),
* that there are standard forms which are described in detail,
* that there are special pots to be used -- shallow and with a special "oriental" look (the online-guys often advertise for them or let other companies advertise),
* which tools you should use (the online-guys next to always advertise for them or let other companies advertise),
* often you get book + tools in one, sometimes including a plant, and those packages are no savings packages at all.
There are gazillions of publications -- printed, online, films!

So obviously this is a real market for plants, books, pots & tools, where you can earn real money.

BUT :evil:
* they never-ever said anywhere HOW to cut a bonsai!!! [-(

So, I am fed up with those bonsai guys and won't look at their books anymore. To much effort, no outcome at all.

This winter I am going to cut my Pachy. sukkulentum. Finally. Without any bonsais in my mind, but just as I cut my roses: "With a sharp knife and a cool mind" recommended a city gardener of my home town. And I am going to do it as with my Crassula-mini-trees: I am going to place it on a stool & circle it before doing anything, and circle it while cutting. That's it.
N.
Love and Revolution!
...and still more cacti.
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tasuccs
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Re: Pachypodium pruning: suggestions are welcome

Post by tasuccs »

nachtkrabb wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 1:47 pm BUT :evil:
* they never-ever said anywhere HOW to cut a bonsai!!! [-(

So, I am fed up with those bonsai guys and won't look at their books anymore. To much effort, no outcome at all.

This winter I am going to cut my Pachy. sukkulentum. Finally. Without any bonsais in my mind, but just as I cut my roses: "With a sharp knife and a cool mind" recommended a city gardener of my home town.
Sorry for my long silence, I've been pruning my P. bispinosum back gradually over the course of the summer in an attempt to get a more compact plant with more basal stems and figured an update might be useful to others. This is going to be a long post so apologies if I lose anyone along the way - pics are at the bottom.

By the way I absolutely agree - almost impossible to find good information on pruning, whether bonsai or pachypodium. At least for bonsai there are hundreds of videos on YouTube, but even then the vloggers seem to rely on instinct more than anything.

There are a few pointers I have picked up along the way - a general approach when a bushy plant is desired is to let a stray branch get longer so it will thicken up a little bit and cut back to the third leaf pair. Based on which way the leaves are facing and the overall shape desired you can vary it slightly to ensure the new branches coming off the node below the cut is growing in a desirable location and direction, and of course for denser plants like portulacaria you would do it by eye. I've found this to be very helpful with my fockea edulis and my commiphora. For adeniums I've been told to cut back to the transition between woody and soft growth early in the growing season to maximize branching. I'll see how that goes this spring.

For P. bispinosum I've struggled to find good advice and based on pictures there seems to be a range of approaches. Like I said above I've been working in stages to avoid starving the plant since the leaves are located at the end of the long rambling stems I wanted to get rid of. I've definitely seen plants pruned back to the caudex but I wasn't confident enough to guess the right timing and be sure my plant has enough energy reserves stored up.

Based on my experience from a year and a half ago I resolved to stick to pruning during the growing season as pruning in winter seemed to stimulate little to no branching down the line. I experimented with different cutting techniques as my narrow nosed shears had left ghastly scars, however, whether I used a scalpel and cinnamon or a sharp camping knife and pruning paste, all disinfected of course, the scars continue to look botched, with protruding vascular tissue and usually a bit of necrosis.

Most cuts seem to produce only one branch at a node close to the cut, without stimulating new growth from the caudex. The one new basal branch you see in the pictures below was from cutting the main stem all the way back to the first branch at the start of summer. Since then I've been cutting back the remaining branch in stages, letting the new growth first gain some momentum. Surprisingly, the most recent cut, which was just below a cut I had made about a month earlier removing what remaining of the older growth above a new branch, caused three new branches to start coming in! I wish they were at the base, but nonetheless I'm happy with the result. Persistence and patience might finally be paying off!

My starting point this summer, before pruning off the main stem. An attractive plant but it quickly became overgrown.
Image
After cutting off the main stem (new basal stem at righ), and cutting the side stem back to the first offshoot a few months later. The first offshoot had become a new "leader" taking energy away from the new growth so I resolved to cut it off down to the new shoot, just below the older cut.
Image
And the final result (followed by a closeup of new buds):
Image
Image
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mmcavall
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Re: Pachypodium pruning: suggestions are welcome

Post by mmcavall »

nachtkrabb wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 1:47 pm

BUT :evil:
* they never-ever said anywhere HOW to cut a bonsai!!! [-(
:lol: ](*,)
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mmcavall
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Re: Pachypodium pruning: suggestions are welcome

Post by mmcavall »

I loved the way you trimmed you Pachypodium , tasuccs. It looks cool!
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nachtkrabb
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Re: Pachypodium pruning: suggestions are welcome

Post by nachtkrabb »

Hallo tasuccs,
thank you very much for the long post with loads of interesting details. Thank you for sharing what you had picked up, so that we (or at least I) can learn from you.
tasuccs wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 3:04 pm (...) whether I used a scalpel and cinnamon or a sharp camping knife and pruning paste, (...)
Would you please explain what you did with cinnamon -- bark sticks, powder, oil? What is pruning paste, please? -- Oh, I checked the latter and found on https://www.baumpflegeportal.de/baumpfl ... umschnitt/, a site about the care of trees:
Sparen Sie sich die Wundverschlussmittel, egal ob Baumteer oder andere Mittel, mit oder ohne Fungizid. Ob der Baum gesund bleibt, hängt nicht vom Mittel ab, sondern vom Schnitt (was und wie) und der Schnittzeit (physiologische Phase des Baumes). Und noch von ein paar anderen „Kleinigkeiten“.
Die Erkenntnisse stammen aus den 80er-Jahren. Sie basieren im Wesentlichen auf den Forschungsarbeiten eines amerikanischen Forstwissenschaftlers (Alex Shigo). Seither hat in der Baumpflege ein Umdenken stattgefunden. Die Erkenntnisse in Kurzform: Wundverschlussmittel schaden mehr, als dass sie nützen. Die Probleme nach einem Baumschnitt liegen meist am nicht fachgerechten Schnitt oder der unpassenden Schnittzeit.
Die Wundverschlussmittel-Industrie, ein bis dahin erträglicher Industriezweig in der Gartenbranche, ist daraufhin so nach und nach zusammengebrochen. (...) Kleingärtner und Privatleute (...) haben ein schlechtes Gewissen nach dem Schnitt und wollen dem Baum etwas Gutes tun, nachdem sie ihm mit der Säge zugesetzt haben (meine Interpretation).

Save the wound closure agents, whether tree tar or other agents, with or without fungicide. Whether the tree remains healthy does not depend on the agent, but on the pruning (what and how) and the pruning time (physiological phase of the tree). And a few other little tricks.
The findings date back to the 1980s. They are essentially based on the research work of an American forest scientist (Alex Shigo). Since then, a rethink has taken place in tree care. The findings in a nutshell: Wound closure agents do more harm than good. The problems after pruning are mostly due to improper pruning or inappropriate pruning time.
As a result, the wound closure agent industry, until then a tolerable branch of the gardening industry, has gradually collapsed. (...) Allotment gardeners and private people (...) have a guilty conscience after pruning and want to do something good for the tree after they have damaged it with the saw (my interpretation).
Well.... But I am really curious what you did with cinnamon.

Your plant looks real good. Congratulations! =D>
Maybe that idea about pruning during the growing season is a good idea. I shall move that in my heart. :) I am not in a hurry.
N
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nachtkrabb
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Re: Pachypodium pruning: suggestions are welcome

Post by nachtkrabb »

Oh, and tasuccs,
in that article I cited above they explain what you experienced:
tasuccs wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 3:04 pm the scars continue to look botched, with protruding vascular tissue and usually a bit of necrosis.
Do you know https://www.deepl.com/translator? I would use that for translation as they don't translate just somehow literally but include the context.
N.
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tasuccs
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Re: Pachypodium pruning: suggestions are welcome

Post by tasuccs »

mmcavall wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 11:06 am I loved the way you trimmed you Pachypodium , tasuccs. It looks cool!
Thanks! I'm quite pleased as it's been a year and a half long project, but more importantly we'll see how it affects future growth.
nachtkrabb wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 9:41 pm Hallo tasuccs,
thank you very much for the long post with loads of interesting details. [...]

Would you please explain what you did with cinnamon -- bark sticks, powder, oil? What is pruning paste, please? [...]

Your plant looks real good. Congratulations! =D>
Thanks to you too nachtkrabb! Much of what I did was inspired by everyone's input on this thread so sharing results seems only fair.

Most videos regarding pruning caudiciforms (these videos overwhelmingly cover adeniums specifically which are in the same family as pachypodiums) instruct the viewer to treat cuts by applying some sort of blue fungicide powder. Most of these will suggest powdered cinnamon as an alternative if you don't have fungicide. Some serious growers scoff at this as cinnamon is not a particularly effective fungicide, while others see it as a harmless suggestion. In my unscientific experience, it doesn't hurt, but most importantly I feel that it does help prevent bugs or dirt from getting directly on to the fresh cut. I do think that cinnamon has a mild antifungal effect too.

Pruning paste refers to a variety of products often containing fungicides and some sort of sealant that forms a kind of cap on fresh pruning wounda. These are controversial but I thought it was worth a try since provious cuts looked so bad. The paste I used, which had a latexy feel, definitely didn't seem to help at all and may even have made things worse.
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