About the requests for ID, again. We need to consider moderating

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Russell99
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Re: About the requests for ID, again. We need to consider moderating

Post by Russell99 »

esp_imaging wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 9:27 am
There have been various threads locked but no policy stated. I think this is completely the wrong way to go about this.
It must feel unfriendly to people who have threads locked without breaking any rules.
[/quote]
anttisepp wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 10:13 am All new cactus lovers want to know right names but haven't experience to make id themself. Cactus hobby is slowly dieing comparing to 70-90 years of XX. There's no future without new people and as restricting as forbidding them is very cruel. Close the id part of the forum and it will become a dreaming pond deep in the forest. IMHO
PS As for me I help others with open heart not trying to demonstrate anything. ;)
I agree with esp_imaging and anttisepp. In my opinion every newcomer and everyone deserves to know what plant they have so that they can research about the specific plant on how to care for it properly. We can't expect a "complete beginner" to give cultivation advice and to share pictures of their collections with out an Id. Locking their Id post makes them feel lost and eventually they will lose interest in the hobby
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x_101
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Re: About the requests for ID, again. We need to consider moderating

Post by x_101 »

Maybe we can reach some middle ground here. Make some sticky or announcement in the ID section with very clear rules. These should encourage new people to go on with their hobby but prevent an abuse on this forum's members goodwill and patience.
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Aiko
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Re: About the requests for ID, again. We need to consider moderating

Post by Aiko »

esp_imaging wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 9:27 am
DaveW wrote: Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:18 am
Aiko is now in charge of Moderating the Identification Forum so no doubt he will come up with some policy regarding the number and frequency of identification requests?
There have been various threads locked but no policy stated. I think this is completely the wrong way to go about this.
It must feel unfriendly to people who have threads locked without breaking any rules.
This only happend for to only two members, both have made several dozens of requests. And they got their answer in the locked treats already. And my message was mostly a suggestion. I think at least one of the two has picked up that message.

I don't mind to think about a policy. But if they don't get read and / or don't get followed, they are probably useless. An automatic limitation is probably the best way to go. I don't know if it is possible within the forum software to limit new members in posting in certain sections (in this case the two identification sections) before they have made, say, 20 posts elsewhere?
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anttisepp
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Re: About the requests for ID, again. We need to consider moderating

Post by anttisepp »

I think only aggression have to be forbidden,
Now here I first time see so strange kind of moderation.
If someone doesn't interested in ID*s please don't open them, it's clear as a day.
E.g. if I don't care about theme "cacti in hydroculture", I'll never go there.
IMHO
Sorry if I offended someone.
esp_imaging
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Re: About the requests for ID, again. We need to consider moderating

Post by esp_imaging »

Aiko wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:17 pm
I don't mind to think about a policy. But if they don't get read and / or don't get followed, they are probably useless. An automatic limitation is probably the best way to go.
I think we should at least publish a policy. If it's broken, we can then refer to it.
If it's not published we have zero reason to expect people know about it, let alone comply with it.
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DaveW
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Re: About the requests for ID, again. We need to consider moderating

Post by DaveW »

Daiv the Administrator who pays for the Forum selects the Moderators for the individual Forums, therefore posting policy is then between him and that particular Moderator. Other than removing spam I am not the Moderator on the identification forums. We were getting complaints about excessive posting of identification images per day from some of the members. People were asked to keep the number of identification images and frequency down to sensible limits per post per day, but long identification posts continued. Asking members to keep identification images down to say a maximum of three images per post simply led to some making multiple three image identification posts per day rather than spreading them out over a period of weeks as was intended.

Some photographic forums I was on in the past limited people to only two pictures per day in only one post per day, but that was due to excessive posting taking up the sites bandwidth.

Nobody wants to stop people asking for identifications, but they do not expect them to ask for the identification of their entire collection in a couple of posts. It is a problem I know when you buy plants without names and unlabelled plants for sale in shops are now becoming more common than they used to be, probably because buyers are not demanding they be labelled. The first person to ask is the person you are buying the plant from and then if they do not know try and get it identified by other means.

If you disagree with the Forum policy or have other suggestions for identification posts you can always contact Daiv by clicking on the green envelope "Contact Us" symbol at the bottom of the Forum if you scroll right down the board to it.
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mikethecactusguy
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Re: About the requests for ID, again. We need to consider moderating

Post by mikethecactusguy »

If I may add an opinion here. I don't think its something we can control any longer in the age of Google. People have become accustomed to instant answers. No one of the newer generation is interested in doing some research before asking a question. It's easier to ask about "my" specific cactus's than to sort through a few months of posts to find what turns out to be a very common cactus or succulent that has been identified 100 times already.
The only way to "slow" it down is to add automatic restrictions. 1 Post a week that contains no more than 3 pictures for example.
Just my opinion.
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Aiko
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Re: About the requests for ID, again. We need to consider moderating

Post by Aiko »

mikethecactusguy wrote: Sun Sep 06, 2020 8:49 pm The only way to "slow" it down is to add automatic restrictions. 1 Post a week that contains no more than 3 pictures for example.
But how, is my main question. Is this even possible with the current forum software, technically?
esp_imaging
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Re: About the requests for ID, again. We need to consider moderating

Post by esp_imaging »

Aiko wrote: Sun Sep 06, 2020 10:10 pm
mikethecactusguy wrote: Sun Sep 06, 2020 8:49 pm The only way to "slow" it down is to add automatic restrictions. 1 Post a week that contains no more than 3 pictures for example.
But how, is my main question. Is this even possible with the current forum software, technically?
Post an announcement at the top of the forum. "Limit on id requests - max 3 plants per post, max 12 plants per month per person".
Simple.
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anttisepp
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Re: About the requests for ID, again. We need to consider moderating

Post by anttisepp »

Why? Who is tired? Is everyday a mount of pictures you HAVE TO see?
Commercial cacti are concurents for sellers?
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Aiko
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Re: About the requests for ID, again. We need to consider moderating

Post by Aiko »

esp_imaging wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 8:55 am
Aiko wrote: Sun Sep 06, 2020 10:10 pm
mikethecactusguy wrote: Sun Sep 06, 2020 8:49 pm The only way to "slow" it down is to add automatic restrictions. 1 Post a week that contains no more than 3 pictures for example.
But how, is my main question. Is this even possible with the current forum software, technically?
Post an announcement at the top of the forum. "Limit on id requests - max 3 plants per post, max 12 plants per month per person".
Simple.
I doubt that will be read. But I might give it a try.
samhain
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Re: About the requests for ID, again. We need to consider moderating

Post by samhain »

Aiko wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:17 pm
esp_imaging wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 9:27 am
DaveW wrote: Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:18 am
Aiko is now in charge of Moderating the Identification Forum so no doubt he will come up with some policy regarding the number and frequency of identification requests?
There have been various threads locked but no policy stated. I think this is completely the wrong way to go about this.
It must feel unfriendly to people who have threads locked without breaking any rules.
This only happend for to only two members, both have made several dozens of requests. And they got their answer in the locked treats already. And my message was mostly a suggestion. I think at least one of the two has picked up that message.

I don't mind to think about a policy. But if they don't get read and / or don't get followed, they are probably useless. An automatic limitation is probably the best way to go. I don't know if it is possible within the forum software to limit new members in posting in certain sections (in this case the two identification sections) before they have made, say, 20 posts elsewhere?
So, you’re irritated with the flood of ID request and you want new members with nothing else to contribute to make 20 posts, before asking for an ID? Genius.
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mikethecactusguy
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Re: About the requests for ID, again. We need to consider moderating

Post by mikethecactusguy »

Hi Aiko
I'm not a software guy. I suspect you are correct in guessing the current forum software will not support restrictions. I know I only joined 18 months ago, but I have noticed an increase in aggressive posts by newer member over the past 4 months. I personally am not opposed to seeing the forum move towards a paid membership. That could help support a software upgrade. So many of the identification requests are first time posters who hang around for a short time and then never post again. Other Hobby Forums I have been a member of, have some controls over how many posts one can do daily.
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Aiko
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Re: About the requests for ID, again. We need to consider moderating

Post by Aiko »

samhain wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 2:51 pm So, you’re irritated with the flood of ID request and you want new members with nothing else to contribute to make 20 posts, before asking for an ID? Genius.
Thanks for the compliment.
I don't have to tell you there are multiple ways to contribute nonetheless. If only to show some effort you are not here only to satisfy your needs and run.
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7george
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Re: About the requests for ID, again. We need to consider moderating

Post by 7george »

Some growers wait ~ 30 years before asking "what is my cactus name" in this forum and things still look OK. Others don't care what they buy from the store but want to know that from the web right after bringing new pots home. There is a chance that until they do 20 posts these will get an idea about their plants nature reading this and that. Otherwise my impression is they want to make others to do efforts & search instead of doing this themselves.
If your cacti mess in your job just forget about the job.
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