About the requests for ID, again. We need to consider moderating

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mikethecactusguy
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Re: About the requests for ID, again. We need to consider moderating

Post by mikethecactusguy »

Hi All
I know I'm new here. I admit I have posted my share of please ID already. I have however spent a considerable time looking through the ID postings and have been able to identify quit a few of my cacti from looking at the other postings . When I say considerable time I mean hours and days. It's been fun going through the postings and seeing what other people have. It's been fun learning from the thousands of postings I have read through. Then again I'm an old fart at 62 and from an era when you went to the library and spent time looking through books to get information. This forum is very helpful and does narrow down the time needed to identify and learn about this hobby. Unfortunately more people don't have the ability to explore nor do they think they need to. Thanks to Google instant answers are what people now expect. People also no longer understand limits. When something is free, instead of using a little, they now take a lot and expect it. Personally I will gladly "PAY" to get access to "premium" Content. And maybe that is where this forum should be going. You can join for free for a basic package. However if you want to get it all unlimited, a small membership fee is required. Nothing ridiculous. $25.00 US would weed out those only interested in taking instead of sharing.
I have tried to contribute in other area's and I am about to post my story and pictures of my first attempt of growing from seeds. We have babies. YES!
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DaveW
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Re: About the requests for ID, again. We need to consider moderating

Post by DaveW »

Not sure what was meant by "Common Names", unless it is a local name used in the country the plant comes from? When you move away from habitat countries the scientific name is used more than a common name like "Sand Dollar" etc since it is universal, whereas common names may only be used in a single country or sometimes only in a local area, therefore can be meaningless to others reading them. Certainly from other countries, therefore it is always worth getting quickly used to using the scientific name.

This site produces a handy lookup facility for changing your common names into proper scientific names, which it is handy if you use it so everybody on the Forum will be certain what plant you are referring to:-

https://cactiguide.com/namesearch/

To illustrate what confusion common names can produce internationally, for instance the American Bluebell is not the same as the English Bluebell and that is not the same as the French Bluebell or even the Scottish Bluebell, which are often different genera and not always closely related. Therefore your common names may not be understood outside your country or area, or even mean different plants to those abroad. The very reason Botanical Nomenclature was invented for.

Botanical Latin may look daunting to beginners, but generally you only have to write them not pronounce them. So as soon as you can adopt the proper botanical name it allows everybody from around the world to comment on your plant and be sure we are all talking about the same genus or species.
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saboten
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Re: About the requests for ID, again. We need to consider moderating

Post by saboten »

I understood the above post speaking of common names to mean that one stickied thread of commonly sold in nurseries cacti that includes a lot of typical newbie requests. Like, if there were a bot that could post a link to that stickied thread automatically for new IDs, that might help? I know that, in spite of it being up at the top of the page, I passed right over that thread without noticing it until someone actually posted a link to it.
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M.B
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Re: About the requests for ID, again. We need to consider moderating

Post by M.B »

COMMON cactus list is located in CACTI IDENTIFICATION in the ANNOUNCEMENTS section
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Cactifan800
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Re: About the requests for ID, again. We need to consider moderating

Post by Cactifan800 »

M.B wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2019 12:17 am COMMON cactus list is located in CACTI IDENTIFICATION in the ANNOUNCEMENTS section
Thanks! I had no idea it existed. What a great post by elie.
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saboten
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Re: About the requests for ID, again. We need to consider moderating

Post by saboten »

I don't even know if this is possible, but what if there were a chat box where people could post one-time ID requests. Then people could just ignore the chat box if they wanted and the forum would get less cluttered.
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7george
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Re: About the requests for ID, again. We need to consider moderating

Post by 7george »

I have a proposition or a suggestion: Let's make all photos posted in ID section (or maybe in other sub-forums too) to be available for creative commons use (like CC BY-SA) by default. Tons and tons of those collect dust in numerous short-lived topics with similar titles up there from many years. In this way the new members will contribute something to our community from the very beginning and more members will have some interest to browse through these topics. Photos in question are mostly of low-quality and showing common plants but from time to time some valuable things might be seen.

I guess just some forum rules have to be modified for this if moderators do not mind. Come on people: let's move ahead and raise the value of this forum!
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DaveW
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Re: About the requests for ID, again. We need to consider moderating

Post by DaveW »

I contacted Daiv on the question of excessively long identification postings. Evidently there is little the board itself can do to regulate it. It is up to everybody to just politely tell newcomers not to post too many at once since it is counter productive because people then just skip the post rather than try and identify them all at once. Say post three species for identification one day then in batches of three in succeeding days? That is of course only for identifications since views of collections or travelogues etc rely on usually posting hopefully named multiple images for our knowledge and entertainment.

Daiv says:-

Dave,
I think we used to have a sticky post at the top of the ID section that gave tips on posting for ID. I looked for it, but didn't see it yet.

I looked and PHPBB doesn't have a way to limit the number of posting in a section like that. So I think reminding new people will be the only way. Once new people get the idea, they can help remind those newer still?

Daiv

However do it politely since obviously newcomers being very enthusiastic often want all their collection identifying at once rather than say limiting it to three plants daily and nobody wants to discourage their collecting. We all had to start in the past with a lot of unidentified plants.
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Aiko
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Re: About the requests for ID, again. We need to consider moderating

Post by Aiko »

I could not resist in a rant when I saw the latest forum addition of Arturo on https://www.cactiguide.com/forum/viewto ... 54#p377149. Like Elquisco an annoyingly known name for a certain section of this forum.

There really should be a solution for these identification request.

I say it is time to stop talking about it and to finally execute a solution, I don't even care which one we choose out of of whatever solution has been offered in the list of possible solutions. Do we need additional moderators for this, I offer myself to be one of those.

I personally would be very very very happy if the identification section will not be shown in the list of new messages that I always visit (https://www.cactiguide.com/forum/search ... nreadposts). Is that a doable option?
DaveW
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Re: About the requests for ID, again. We need to consider moderating

Post by DaveW »

Those decisions are not up the the Moderators Aiko but the Daiv the owner of the Forum who sets the Forum's policy. I will pass your comment on to him.
samhain
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Re: About the requests for ID, again. We need to consider moderating

Post by samhain »

I don’t choose to be bothered by id requests. I can click on them and maybe learn something or not click on them, with the greatest of ease. I suppose I am not making any of these super important threads that are getting clogged up though.
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mikethecactusguy
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Re: About the requests for ID, again. We need to consider moderating

Post by mikethecactusguy »

I think a gentle nudging of the poster would go a long way. I answered Arturo's request with a suggestion of using the information he has already gained to do some research before posting again. I also suggested that he contribute to the forums since all 125 postings of his were id requests. I also suggested he explore this site as well as a few others to look at already posted pictures and see if he could find his answers that way. It is hard. People have come to expect instant answers instead of exploring and researching.
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DaveW
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Re: About the requests for ID, again. We need to consider moderating

Post by DaveW »

I am always reluctant to discourage enthusiastic newcomers to the hobby, but moderation in all posts is a good idea. Too many identifications at once can be overkill and counter productive if people no longer bother answering your posts. Unnamed plants in our collections are nothing new, even those of us who have been collecting for over 50 years still have plants we are not too certain of their specific identity.

I still say the best advice for any beginner is to buy yourself a basic book on cactus cultivation and identity.

If you are buying from a nurseryman rather than just a Garden Centre or store ask them the name of any unnamed plant. Presumably if they grew it from other than mixed seed they should know what they set?

Aiko is now in charge of Moderating the Identification Forum so no doubt he will come up with some policy regarding the number and frequency of identification requests?
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Re: About the requests for ID, again. We need to consider moderating

Post by esp_imaging »

DaveW wrote: Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:18 am
Aiko is now in charge of Moderating the Identification Forum so no doubt he will come up with some policy regarding the number and frequency of identification requests?
There have been various threads locked but no policy stated. I think this is completely the wrong way to go about this.
It must feel unfriendly to people who have threads locked without breaking any rules.
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anttisepp
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Re: About the requests for ID, again. We need to consider moderating

Post by anttisepp »

All new cactus lovers want to know right names but haven't experience to make id themself. Cactus hobby is slowly dieing comparing to 70-90 years of XX. There's no future without new people and as restricting as forbidding them is very cruel. Close the id part of the forum and it will become a dreaming pond deep in the forest. IMHO
PS As for me I help others with open heart not trying to demonstrate anything. ;)
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