Pereskiopsis length before grafting

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Carbo
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Pereskiopsis length before grafting

Post by Carbo »

What is the ideal length of pereskiopsis shoot that will provide maximum growth for the scion? Assuming no leaves fall out from the peresk.
I know that more leaves(length)=more photosynthesis, but at which point i.e. length the scion doesn'g grow any faster?
esp_imaging
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Re: Pereskiopsis length before grafting

Post by esp_imaging »

Potentially, the larger the stock, the faster the scion growth rate, partly due to greater photosynthesis, partly due to greater water and nutrient uptake from a larger root system.

Large stocks, are likely to try to branch strongly, rather than putting all their energies into the scion, so there may be a point at which increasing stock size doesn't help much. There may be other factors too - there may be inherent limits on growth rates of scions, even if very well provided with nutrients, water, light, air etc.

In practice, for small scions, you may not wish to pursue this too far - does it make sense to use growing space for a dwarf plant on a massive grafting stock, even if it grows quickly? Many of us would prefer to have a few smaller plants than one massive graft.

Something that can work is to have a large trailing cactus (e.g. Aporocactus or Cleistocactus colademononis) on a tall standard stock - say a 1m tall Trichocereus. Growth can be very vigorous for these fast growing cacti, and the resulting plant shape very effective.
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wilsontucker
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Re: Pereskiopsis length before grafting

Post by wilsontucker »

I usually try to cut mine somewhere around 6" (15CM). If it's a big sturdy piece i'll go up higher to maybe 8" (20CM). I've got a lot of shorter lengths though for various reasons, so really just kind of work with what you've got and things will still grow fast. I've got some on only 3-4" pieces that are growing just as fast as their bigger counterparts.
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Hanazono
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Re: Pereskiopsis length before grafting

Post by Hanazono »

I use new shoots of Pereskiopsis as grafting stocks.
A 15 cm length is marked on cutting plate and I refer to the mark when I cut off-shoots.
All my stocks are 15 cm lenght which are quite accurate.

More than 10 leaves are attached on 15 cm lenght and there is no issue for the growing speed of scions.
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Carbo
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Re: Pereskiopsis length before grafting

Post by Carbo »

So 15cm is ensough? Say you graft a 2 seedlings of the same age and size on 2 pereskiopsis stocks, one 15cm and the other let's say double, 30cm, is there difference in growth? Anyone ever tried a little experiment like that?
I'm cutting glass to make a couple of aquariums to use as terrariums for peresk. so I can grow some cacti during winter season under artificial lights, so the height of aquariums is how much each peresk. will be able to grow, that's why I want optimal length of stocks but not longer if there is no benefit.
wilsontucker
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Re: Pereskiopsis length before grafting

Post by wilsontucker »

15cm is a just a good size people have picked. You could do 12cm or 18cm and be fine, could even go taller if you like. The taller you want your stock to be though the longer you have to wait for it to grow and thicken, and the less grafts you can do. The taller/bigger the stock the faster the growth, but also the longer you have to wait for the stock to get to that size so it's really up to you.

If you have an unlimited amount of space and pereskiopsis you could certainly let them all get to 30CM before using, but since most don't, you just do what's best for your situation and 15cm is a good general cutoff area in speed and size.
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Hanazono
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Re: Pereskiopsis length before grafting

Post by Hanazono »

I think number of Pereskiopsis leaves affects on the growing speed of scions theoretially but there is an other critical factor.
It is the grafting union which is can not make perfectly.
Making good/poor union comes from the grafting skill normally.
Because of the above, the test of stock length related the growing speed of scion is not easy.

I normally graft 24 same species' seedlings and minimum 12 seedlings.
Stock length is measued and cut, 15 cm length.
2 cm is in soil and cut top 1 cm during grafting and so all of stocks are 13 cm height.
All scions should be grow with similar speed but they are varied actually.

For example:
Sions - Astrophytum capricorne x red flowering asterias
Seeds were collected from same fruit and sown on 15th November 2018.
12 seedlings were grafted on 4th January 2019.
The attached photo shows current situation.

Left- 45 mm scion diameter, 11 stock leaves
Right-10 mm scion diameter, 12 stock leaves
https://cactiguide.com/forum/download/f ... w&id=70629
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Grafted red flowering capricorne
Grafted red flowering capricorne
IMG_4439 - Copy.JPG (99.06 KiB) Viewed 5128 times
Pereskiopsisdotcom
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Re: Pereskiopsis length before grafting

Post by Pereskiopsisdotcom »

Carbo wrote: Sat Sep 14, 2019 5:44 pm What is the ideal length of pereskiopsis shoot that will provide maximum growth for the scion? Assuming no leaves fall out from the peresk.
I know that more leaves(length)=more photosynthesis, but at which point i.e. length the scion doesn'g grow any faster?
I've grafted to almost every size of rootstock and have had dramatically better long term success with longer rootstocks. That said, maintaining leaf count as opposed to just stems has made a huge difference in long term success. I say long term because I've grafted on no leaf rootstock and on those less than one inch long. They still work but become significantly more challenging to manage and are usually slower to grow well.

Regardless of size, seedlings will not take well on rootstocks that are cut too far from the fresh growing tip. Thus if you have a longer rootstock you should consider grafting as close to the top as possible. As you move further down you will notice it is hard and woody with more challenging vascular tissue to work with.

As Hanazono said, the vascular line up is going to be the best contributor to growth both good and bad. His example is one I see all the time with mine.
http://pereskiopsis.com

Interests include: Rhipsalis, Turbinicarpus, Gymnocalycium, and Lophophora.
claudekim1
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Re: Pereskiopsis length before grafting

Post by claudekim1 »

Late to the party but my thin short stock with 1 single leaf grew my astro scion so fast it split it open. I think it really depends on what type of plant your growing. I say the slower they grow. The taller you want it to be. My copiapoa cinerea is growing faster than all my astrophytums because i used a 35cm stock.
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Carbo
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Re: Pereskiopsis length before grafting

Post by Carbo »

It seems that pot size affects growth way more than anything else, or at least that's what my last year's grafts showed to be the case. I'll have to run some experiments this season
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