LW, B. Torch, P. Torch

[mycelium]

Hello!

TL;DR: I'm a complete newb who decided to start some seeds before doing adequate research, and am concerned the research I did do was misguided. Pictures at bottom of post.

As the title says, I have four containers with Lophophora Williamsii (LW going forward; the site I bought them from claimed these are LW, I'm not 100% convinced) seedlings, two containers of Trichocereus Peruvianus (P Torch going forward) and two containers of Trichocereus Bridgesii (B Torch going forward).

The soil mix for the LW is the following:

1 part standard cactus soil mix
1 part vermiculite
3 parts perlite

The soil mix for P Torch and B Torch is the following:

1 part standard cactus soil mix
1/2 part EWC (earth worm castings)
1 part coco coir
2 parts perlite

They are currently living under a 600w LED light. Actual wattage from the wall is 198w I believe? It's not an actual 600w. I keep them in a seed starter tray with a humidity dome, and have cheese cloth draped over the humidity dome to cut the total lux down to ~1300. Above the cheese cloth the light is producing 12,000 lux at 32 inches above the tray.

Temps average 84F with 80% RH, +/- 10%.

LW seeds were sown on 2020-11-18. Approximately 30 seeds were sown in each container. I prepped the soil, filled the containers and bottom watered until moisture was visible on the surface of the soil. Not muddy, just damp looking. I then let the containers drain for a little over an hour before sowing the seeds. I sprinkled the seeds across the surface then smoothed the surface with a clean spoon to ensure adequate contact with the seeds to surface.

I placed each container into a baggie and put them in a grow tent, shaded by other plants within that tent so that they weren't being blasted by 40k lux. Germination was ok, not great but not terrible.

As to avoid having eight baggies with containers hanging out in my grow tent (there's enough to deal with in that tent, didn't need additional things to move daily) I moved the LW containers into the seed tray when I sowed the P Torch and B Torch somewhere around 2020-12-11.

Every couple days after that I misted the humidity dome and the surface of the pots as the seeds germinated, wanting to ensure adequate humidity. Mid January, I stopped misting so often and did my first bottom watering since initial planting due to the P Torch and B Torch containers getting light when picked up. I also exposed the seedlings to more direct lighting in the tent, and that's when I noticed the LW and B Torch starting to get a bit red.

Given I had an extra light hanging around, taking up space and doing nothing, I decided to move the tray out of the tent and give it somewhere a bit more mellow to do its thing. This happened somewhere around 2021-01-19. I noticed no improvements over a week, and decided that they were likely still getting too much light as the growth rates seem slower than what I've seen other posters here show, and applied the cheesecloth fix.

Since applying the cheesecloth, the B Torch has greened up more and the P Torch has remained unaffected through all of this. LW seems to have picked up the pace a little but it's hard to tell given they're so small and I haven't been taking photos in any kind of reasonable iteration to definitively document growth rates.

All that being said, I have some concerns.

1. LW are looking pretty red/brown. I've not started cactus seeds before but what I've seen here is that coloration is an indication of too much lighting or possibly rot.
2. How much humidity is too much for 2-3 month old seedlings?
3. When should I start decreasing the humidity?
4. Should I be top watering for now? If so, how often?
5. Should I be applying a fertilizer? If so, how often?
6. How soon should I start exposing them to more light? There are multiple layers of cheesecloth so I can progressively increase the intensity until they're under the light, full bore.

Pictures for possible diagnosis:

LW

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B Torch

btorch1.jpg (151.29 KiB) Viewed 2318 times

btorch2.jpg (137.67 KiB) Viewed 2318 times

P Torch

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ptorch2.jpg (140.08 KiB) Viewed 2318 times

[greenknight]

They're doing fine.

They're not not completely red or purple, a touch red is okay but you wouldn't want them to be much redder than they are. The light is on the strong side, which makes for good, sturdy growth. Much stronger light would start to over-stress them and suppress growth, but I think it's okay right now.

I can't tell you just when to reduce the shading, you'll have to feel your way along - probably not for a couple months at least. When they lose the seedling look, and start to resemble miniatures of their adult form, start treating them more like adults

They would still be happy at 100% humidity at this age, but once they're out of the baggie you have to keep them drier since mold spores can get to them. Growth will not be as fast as it would have been in the incubator environment of the baggie, but there's no going back once you've taken them out.

I recommend you stick to bottom watering for the first year, this encourages deep rooting while leaving the surface drier, which helps prevent mold. Don't put them in any great depth of water, just let them wick up water from a shallow layer - soil which is underwater can become saturated, but it will never wick up enough to do more than dampen it.

You can make this easier by putting the pots on capillary matting, then you just keep the matting wet. That's how commercial nurseries produce thousands of seedlings with little labor.

Your mix contains some nutrients, and cactus seedlings don't need a lot, no fertilizer should be needed for the first year at least.

You're doing very well for your first attempt at growing cacti from seed. They're spread awfully thin, though. Cactus seedlings like to be crowded, you didn't need to use so many pots.

[mycelium]

They're spread awfully thin, though. Cactus seedlings like to be crowded, you didn't need to use so many pots.

Yeah, I was anticipating more to germinate. I certainly sowed more seeds than what sprouted, that's for sure! Lesson learned, been kickin myself since seeing some of the posts around here where others used the little 2" squares instead of the 3" I used. Should've known impulse was going to bite me somehow haha.

Would you say I should keep a small film of water in the tray for this stage of life?

I suppose I could run to Ace Hardware and see if they have any capillary matting. Just want to make sure they're receiving the hydration they require at this stage, without drowning them.

[greenknight]

Yes, a thin film of water in the tray would be fine.

I meant to add that if the humidity drops very low, like next summer or anytime we get east winds, it would be good to mist them. In our typical humid winter weather, bottom watering alone should be sufficient.

[mycelium]

Awesome. Thanks for the input!

Luckily the closet shares the room in which my grow tent is, and humidity tends to stay pretty high due to the other plants transpiring. I do run a dehumidifier, but that only knocks things down to a cool 60%, which in 80F feels like San Antonio in the summer. I'll definitely keep an eye on it come the warmer months though.

[mycelium]

Hello again!

It's been a few months since I posted, and thought I would drop an update in here. My first attempt with LW from seed was a complete failure. Leanred the lessons of mold/fungus and gnats are not friends of cacti seedlings. Luckily I had some remaining seeds and started another culture sometime in early March. Also intend on starting another couple cultures as I picked up some seeds from precious cactus, just waiting till I have more appropriate starter containers/media available. However, the P. Torch and B. Torch have managed to survive my shenanigans!

They're being treated as adults now, and just received their first 1/4 strength feeding yesterday. I have put them outside on occasion, though the b.torch started to get a bit red so I brought them back in. Don't think they were quite ready for the sun's intensity. All is well though, they've greened back up quickly enough.

Sorry for the flood of pics! If anyone has any input, like if these ready to be transplanted to their own individual containers yet, or if I should be watering more often (averaging around once a month right now, waiting till the containers get really light), I'm all ears.

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[greenknight]

Sorry to hear about the Lophs - everyone has some losses, but it's a real downer to lose all of one species. I hope you have better luck with the new batch.

No rush about potting them up, they'll handle it better when they're bigger. I'd leave them in these pots for this year, unless they really start to crowd each other (they're fast growers, that could happen). Continue watering when they get dry, however long that takes. The pots will dry out faster as the cacti get bigger, especially if you get them out in the sun.

Getting them adapted to the sun is a gradual process. If you can arrange it so they get morning sun only, that works well as an intermediate step. Block the sun from hitting the sides of the pots when it's warm, you don't want to overheat the roots.

A little reddening from the sun is okay, that's an adaptive response. Sunburn on cacti is white - if you see pale patches start to form on the most sun-exposed parts, get them in the shade immediately.

[mycelium]

Sorry to hear about the Lophs - everyone has some losses, but it's a real downer to lose all of one species. I hope you have better luck with the new batch.

No rush about potting them up, they'll handle it better when they're bigger. I'd leave them in these pots for this year, unless they really start to crowd each other (they're fast growers, that could happen). Continue watering when they get dry, however long that takes. The pots will dry out faster as the cacti get bigger, especially if you get them out in the sun.

Getting them adapted to the sun is a gradual process. If you can arrange it so they get morning sun only, that works well as an intermediate step. Block the sun from hitting the sides of the pots when it's warm, you don't want to overheat the roots.

A little reddening from the sun is okay, that's an adaptive response. Sunburn on cacti is white - if you see pale patches start to form on the most sun-exposed parts, get them in the shade immediately.

Awesome, thanks for the input! I think that was the biggest mistake I made with having them outside; they were catching quite a bit of afternoon sun, and while I thought they were shaded where I had em, it wasn't enough. Between the suspected sunburn and the crazy fluctuations in temps we had last month, I assumed they weren't hardened enough to withstand the rains, the cold, and the intense sun.

I'll find a place on the east side of the house to set them outside now that our night temps are staying above 50F and the rains are decreasing again. Pretty crazy how quick they're growing. The tallest is over 1 1/4" at right over six months old.

[greenknight]

Ya, the weather has been nuts. First it's too cool for the cacti to grow, then it suddenly pops up to 80f and you have to watch out for sunburn. I put my cacti on an east-facing porch first to let them adapt, but it doesn't do much good when temps are in the 30s and 40s. We should be past that now - it's almost June, we oughta be!