Why do you graft?

All about grafting. How-to information, progress reports, show of your results.
Mrs.Green
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Why do you graft?

Post by Mrs.Green »

As the heading says, why do you graft? I belive I know some of the reasons ( grows faster, grows better than on its own roots) but are there other reasons that I have missed or forgotten? If you grow cacti for sale, the grafted ones seems to be popular among people with no special interest in plants and that may be a motivator moneywise?

If you don’t grow cacti for sale but strictly as a hobby , why are you grafting? Isn’t it less satisfying seeing a grafted plant grow/bloom than a plant on its own roots? I hope I don’t offend anybody , I ask because I am curious and want to learn more .
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anttisepp
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Re: Why do you graft?

Post by anttisepp »

Try to grow Sclerocacti on its own roots... ;)
And I still like classic hybotan Gymno also.
Mrs.Green
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Re: Why do you graft?

Post by Mrs.Green »

anttisepp wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 8:36 am Try to grow Sclerocacti on its own roots... ;)
And I still like classic hybotan Gymno also.
Send me one and I will try! :lol: Jokes aside; off course I had to investigate this as soon as I read your reply! You should show your Sclerocacti the Wikipediapage, it says its an easy plant to grow! :P But more in depht reading gave answers like yours. Wonder if it would be easier to grow it outdoors( in ground) reading about its habitat? Making certain adjustments off course.

When I first got ‘bitten’ by cacti, I bought a Hibotan gymno too but as far as I can recall the rootstock died before the scion. By the way, is scion the correct term also when talking about adult grafted cacti or is it just a term for the newly grafted cactus ( gymno in this case)?

As I understand this is a common problem with the rootstock used.
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Carbo
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Re: Why do you graft?

Post by Carbo »

There are many reasons to graft, but people mostly graft for faster growth and out of necessity(for mutants that lack chlorophyll). However, grafting can have very dramatic effects such as this:
http://cactus-art.biz/schede/MAMMILLARI ... truosa.htm

As you can see, mammilaria grafted on opuntia compressa looks amazing. Another reason you might want to graft is to get seeds more easily and reliably. I am only trying it this season but the theory is this: many cacti are self-incompatible and you need 2 specimens of different genetics to cross-pollinate to get seeds. If you graft 2 seedlings or cuttings of different genetics on 1 stock, they should always flower at the same time and make cross pollination easy as pie. Can work with 2 different species too, for consistently producing F1 hybrid seeds, though different species might have different triggers for flowering other than the plant's physiology.
Imo grafting, especially on more durable stocks, has no downsides. It will make your scion more healthy and long-lived, while also forgiving you for occasional over-watering.
Mrs.Green
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Re: Why do you graft?

Post by Mrs.Green »

Carbo wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 8:22 pm There are many reasons to graft, but people mostly graft for faster growth and out of necessity(for mutants that lack chlorophyll). However, grafting can have very dramatic effects such as this:
http://cactus-art.biz/schede/MAMMILLARI ... truosa.htm

As you can see, mammilaria grafted on opuntia compressa looks amazing. Another reason you might want to graft is to get seeds more easily and reliably. I am only trying it this season but the theory is this: many cacti are self-incompatible and you need 2 specimens of different genetics to cross-pollinate to get seeds. If you graft 2 seedlings or cuttings of different genetics on 1 stock, they should always flower at the same time and make cross pollination easy as pie. Can work with 2 different species too, for consistently producing F1 hybrid seeds, though different species might have different triggers for flowering other than the plant's physiology.
Imo grafting, especially on more durable stocks, has no downsides. It will make your scion more healthy and long-lived, while also forgiving you for occasional over-watering.
Carbo; thank you for an informative answer :) Interesting that the Mamm you are referring to reacts so differently to the two species of rootstock and how much impact that have on the flowers. The Mamm mentioned is a monstrose form , would the same apply to normal forms of cacti? In the pic in the link one of the rootstocks seems to be completly buried in the substrate. Isn’t this a bit risky? I am thinking of rot and you wouldn’t see if anything is going wrong with the rootstock before its a bit late?
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Carbo
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Re: Why do you graft?

Post by Carbo »

Mrs.Green wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 6:43 am Carbo; thank you for an informative answer :) Interesting that the Mamm you are referring to reacts so differently to the two species of rootstock and how much impact that have on the flowers. The Mamm mentioned is a monstrose form , would the same apply to normal forms of cacti? In the pic in the link one of the rootstocks seems to be completly buried in the substrate. Isn’t this a bit risky? I am thinking of rot and you wouldn’t see if anything is going wrong with the rootstock before its a bit late?
It works for many other cacti, there are examples of others species such as rebutias that look way better on that opuntia than on their own roots or on other stocks. It's worth mentioning that you'll get those results specifically with O.compressa, with other species I'm not sure. My theory is that O.compressa acumulates a lot of sugars in it's pads during growing season, this serves as antifreeze during winter. It apparently can force it's own dehydration when it senses cold even if you water it, and also pulls water out of the scion. When spring finally arrives it hydrates rapidly, you'll notice that whenever you hydrate a very dehydrated cactus, it flowers more. All those sugars opuntia accumulated also help increase number of flowers. Spines are significantly enhanced (bigger, denser) on many cacti grafted on it.
Here are some of my rebutias in flower right now, grafted on compressa:
Image

They've been like this for 2 weeks. Flowers popping up constantly.

There is one downside however, and that is that not all species will grow on it. So far a species of echinocereus and hatiora did not grow at all on it.

To answer you question about rot risk, I don't think it's an issue. Compressa is extremely resistant, even comparing to non-cactus plants. I found pads I tossed last year in the worst possible conditions, vegetation rotting around it, no light and very swampy. They were very much alive and started growing roots.
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Hanazono
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Re: Why do you graft?

Post by Hanazono »

I graft Young seedlings, 1~2 months old after germination.
There was a professional cactus seeds supplier but he finished his business and I can not buy cactus seeds in here now.
Some people import cactus seeds but I do not because importing of plant related materials is very hard in here.

My purpose of grafting is early seed harvesting by myself.
If seedlings were grafted early spring, Ariocarpus are in flower in autumn and Astrophytum are in flower next spring.
I can harvest both Ariocarpus and Astrophytum seeds next year.

When cacti were grafted, they make more flowers than own-root ones. This is also an advantage for seed harvesting.

The attached photo is grafted 1 year old Ariocarpus fissuratus cv Godzilla. I took the photo in April this year. They were in flower last autumn before 1 year old and I harvested seeds.
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A. fissuratus cv godzilla
A. fissuratus cv godzilla
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Carbo
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Re: Why do you graft?

Post by Carbo »

Hanazono wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 10:31 pm I graft Young seedlings, 1~2 months old after germination.
There was a professional cactus seeds supplier but he finished his business and I can not buy cactus seeds in here now.
Some people import cactus seeds but I do not because importing of plant related materials is very hard in here.

My purpose of grafting is early seed harvesting by myself.
If seedlings were grafted early spring, Ariocarpus are in flower in autumn and Astrophytum are in flower next spring.
I can harvest both Ariocarpus and Astrophytum seeds next year.

When cacti were grafted, they make more flowers than own-root ones. This is also an advantage for seed harvesting.

The attached photo is grafted 1 year old Ariocarpus fissuratus cv Godzilla. I took the photo in April this year. They were in flower last autumn before 1 year old and I harvested seeds.
You seem to have lots of experience with grafting on pereskiopsis, can you share information about what can be expected in terms of diameter for different species grafted on peres. after let's say, 1 year?
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Hanazono
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Re: Why do you graft?

Post by Hanazono »

G'morning Carbo,
can you share information about what can be expected in terms of diameter for different species grafted on peres. after let's say, 1 year?
Very young seedlings can graft on stocks such as H. undutus, H. jusbertii, Pereskiopsis etc. It is also can graft on Opuntia but we can not keep Opuntia which is a pest plant in here. I started to use Pereskiopsis in 2008.

I do not measure size of scions at 1 year old but 2 years old scions are measured size during degrafting.
I degraft all scions when they are 2 years old. Since the body size affects on rooting, I measure all.

The size of 2 years old scions are varied but they are around:
Ariocarpus retusus-9~10 cm
Ariocarpus fissuratus-7~8 cm ( as attached photo of godzilla)
Ariocarpus kotschoubeyanus-5~7 cm (multi-heads)
Obregonia denegrii-5~7 cm
Strombocactus disciformis-3~5 cm

They are all flowering size.

Frank
Mrs.Green
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Re: Why do you graft?

Post by Mrs.Green »

Carbo wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 8:17 am

It works for many other cacti, there are examples of others species such as rebutias that look way better on that opuntia than on their own roots or on other stocks. It's worth mentioning that you'll get those results specifically with O.compressa, with other species I'm not sure. My theory is that O.compressa acumulates a lot of sugars in it's pads during growing season, this serves as antifreeze during winter. It apparently can force it's own dehydration when it senses cold even if you water it, and also pulls water out of the scion. When spring finally arrives it hydrates rapidly, you'll notice that whenever you hydrate a very dehydrated cactus, it flowers more. All those sugars opuntia accumulated also help increase number of flowers. Spines are significantly enhanced (bigger, denser) on many cacti grafted on it.
Here are some of my rebutias in flower right now, grafted on compressa:
Image

They've been like this for 2 weeks. Flowers popping up constantly.

There is one downside however, and that is that not all species will grow on it. So far a species of echinocereus and hatiora did not grow at all on it.

To answer you question about rot risk, I don't think it's an issue. Compressa is extremely resistant, even comparing to non-cactus plants. I found pads I tossed last year in the worst possible conditions, vegetation rotting around it, no light and very swampy. They were very much alive and started growing roots.
Thank you Carbo and nice flowers! Interesting, then one would be inclined to think that the popular Hibotan’s may be more longlived on O.compressa stock than on Hylocereus? ( since the stock often seems to die before the scion as I have understood) . If you are right about the higher sugarlevels one could also be tempted to belive that this would attract more pests?
Mrs.Green
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Re: Why do you graft?

Post by Mrs.Green »

Hanazono wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 10:31 pm I graft Young seedlings, 1~2 months old after germination.
There was a professional cactus seeds supplier but he finished his business and I can not buy cactus seeds in here now.
Some people import cactus seeds but I do not because importing of plant related materials is very hard in here.

My purpose of grafting is early seed harvesting by myself.
If seedlings were grafted early spring, Ariocarpus are in flower in autumn and Astrophytum are in flower next spring.
I can harvest both Ariocarpus and Astrophytum seeds next year.

When cacti were grafted, they make more flowers than own-root ones. This is also an advantage for seed harvesting.

The attached photo is grafted 1 year old Ariocarpus fissuratus cv Godzilla. I took the photo in April this year. They were in flower last autumn before 1 year old and I harvested seeds.
Thank you Hanazono for an informative answer. As I understand you are an experienced grower so I follow up with more questions. Since grafting forces the scion to grow and bloom faster than it would do on its own roots, does this affects the ( degrafted) cactus in the long run? I am thinking of lifespan and health here and maybe there are other effects too?
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7george
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Re: Why do you graft?

Post by 7george »

I also graft only those cacti that don't grow or grow very slow in my conditions. And even don't like much the look of a grafted high on the stick cactus...
If your cacti mess in your job just forget about the job.
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Hanazono
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Re: Why do you graft?

Post by Hanazono »

G'morning Mrs. Green,
does this affects the ( degrafted) cactus in the long run?
Yes it does. Any species grow faster will die earlier.
Cacti will die by various reasons and it is very rare to reach to the natural-life.

I have not experienced yet but I think the life of grafted cacti once is shoter than normal ones.

The grafting is also affected on the appearence of cacti. It will be remained evenif they were degrafted.
Spines and flecking will be exaggerated if scion were grafted especcialy on H. jusvertii.
It is alright for the collecting seeds but you can not see the natural appearence of the cacti if you grafted them.

Frank
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Hanazono
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Re: Why do you graft?

Post by Hanazono »

G'morning 7george,
I also graft only those cacti that don't grow or grow very slow in my conditions. And even don't like much the look of a grafted high on the stick cactus.
I am not sure your grafting method but it may be differet from my method.
The outline of my method is as follows:

I use 15 cm young off-shoots of Pereskiopsis as grafting stocks.
1. Set no-roots stocks in wet-mix and keep them in a large plastic box filled in water at bottom.
2. 4 days later, graft scions. Stocks are still no-roots
3. 10 days later after grafted, repot stock with scions. I can confirm the development of stock roots and completion of the grafting.
Potting-mix of new pots is organic base material only.
Since Pereskiopsis responds well with nitrogen, pellet chiken manure is used as top dressing.
Watering is weekly in growing season.

Pereskiopsis loose leaves in 2nd winter in here and I degaft them following spring. Scions are 2 years old at that time.

If younger seedlings were grafted, you can get earlier flowering of the scion.
I grafted 4 days old Ariocarpus seedlings during "earlier flowering competition" and I could see some flowers on 4 months old scions.

Frank
Mrs.Green
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Re: Why do you graft?

Post by Mrs.Green »

Hanazono wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 12:17 am G'morning Mrs. Green,
does this affects the ( degrafted) cactus in the long run?
Yes it does. Any species grow faster will die earlier.
Cacti will die by various reasons and it is very rare to reach to the natural-life.

I have not experienced yet but I think the life of grafted cacti once is shoter than normal ones.

The grafting is also affected on the appearence of cacti. It will be remained evenif they were degrafted.
Spines and flecking will be exaggerated if scion were grafted especcialy on H. jusvertii.
It is alright for the collecting seeds but you can not see the natural appearence of the cacti if you grafted them.

Frank
Good morning , Thank you Hanazono and have a nice weekend :)
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