who uses cinnamon

[mikethecactusguy]

On some of the Facebook pages I keep seeing cinnamon mentioned. You use it when you plant a cutting?
Comments?

[Neiluj]

I used it a few times with fungal infections on seedlings. Never helped terribly, but I'll admit I only tried it a couple of times.

[ohugal]

I used it a few times on cuts on my tropical plants. Seems to work just fine. For cacti and succulents I tend to use charcoal or aluminum powder. I feel the combination of cinnamon and water creates 'cinnamon slurry'.

[One Windowsill]

I recently used a piece of toilet roll with a couple of drops of cinnamon oil on next to a fan when a young stapeliad seedling developed black spots of fungus. I have repeated this every few days. It seems to have stopped the infection entirely though it still has scars. They are in a light chamber of about one metre cubed, so the cinnamon oil is in a reasonable concentration in there.

[ohugal]

I recently used a piece of toilet roll with a couple of drops of cinnamon oil on next to a fan when a young stapeliad seedling developed black spots of fungus. I have repeated this every few days. It seems to have stopped the infection entirely though it still has scars. They are in a light chamber of about one metre cubed, so the cinnamon oil is in a reasonable concentration in there.

Interesting. An equivalent of vaporising reticulated suplhur of some sorts...

[One Windowsill]

I recently used a piece of toilet roll with a couple of drops of cinnamon oil on next to a fan when a young stapeliad seedling developed black spots of fungus. I have repeated this every few days. It seems to have stopped the infection entirely though it still has scars. They are in a light chamber of about one metre cubed, so the cinnamon oil is in a reasonable concentration in there.

Interesting. An equivalent of vaporising reticulated suplhur of some sorts...

I wouldn't do that in my bedroom.

[HudsonLH]

I am not sure I understand why people use cinnamon when there are proper fungicides available. Literature on its antifungal properties in plants is very preliminary, not to mention that efficacy is most likely inconsistent and dependent on brand, type, quality, etc.

H

[ohugal]

I recently used a piece of toilet roll with a couple of drops of cinnamon oil on next to a fan when a young stapeliad seedling developed black spots of fungus. I have repeated this every few days. It seems to have stopped the infection entirely though it still has scars. They are in a light chamber of about one metre cubed, so the cinnamon oil is in a reasonable concentration in there.

Interesting. An equivalent of vaporising reticulated suplhur of some sorts...

I wouldn't do that in my bedroom.

I dont’t.

[One Windowsill]

I am not sure I understand why people use cinnamon when there are proper fungicides available. Literature on its antifungal properties in plants is very preliminary, not to mention that efficacy is most likely inconsistent and dependent on brand, type, quality, etc.

H

I am going to be eating many of my plants so I would rather not use "proper fungicides", most of which are only effective in some fungal diseases and are not well-characterised for their behaviour in obscure species that are not major crops. Cinnamon is quite a wide-spectrum fungicide. Also, my plant collection is in my bedroom.

It is easy to use organoleptic testing to determine the quality of cinnamon and cinnamon oils. Meaning that you sniff them and you can tell the quality. The main fungicidal activity is from the cinnamaldehyde which gives cinnamon bark its characteristic smell. Though in cinnamon leaf oil the effective fungicide is probably eugenol, as in clove oil.

Research on the use of cinnamon against plant-pathogenic fungi has been done for more than 20 years. As a general fungicide there is more than 50 years of research. A search on Google Scholar for "cinnamaldehyde antifungal" brings up over 17,000 results.

Cinnamon production is also more sustainable than most chemical fungicide manufacture.

[HudsonLH]

I am not sure I understand why people use cinnamon when there are proper fungicides available. Literature on its antifungal properties in plants is very preliminary, not to mention that efficacy is most likely inconsistent and dependent on brand, type, quality, etc.

H

I am going to be eating many of my plants so I would rather not use "proper fungicides", most of which are only effective in some fungal diseases and are not well-characterised for their behaviour in obscure species that are not major crops. Cinnamon is quite a wide-spectrum fungicide. Also, my plant collection is in my bedroom.

It is easy to use organoleptic testing to determine the quality of cinnamon and cinnamon oils. Meaning that you sniff them and you can tell the quality. The main fungicidal activity is from the cinnamaldehyde which gives cinnamon bark its characteristic smell. Though in cinnamon leaf oil the effective fungicide is probably eugenol, as in clove oil.

Research on the use of cinnamon against plant-pathogenic fungi has been done for more than 20 years. As a general fungicide there is more than 50 years of research. A search on Google Scholar for "cinnamaldehyde antifungal" brings up over 17,000 results.

Cinnamon production is also more sustainable than most chemical fungicide manufacture.

One Windowsill,

This is a cacti forum so I would assume that generally, we do not eat decorative houseplants.

Cinnamaldehyde is very different from store-bought cinnamon, and unless one is somehow going to extract it from powdered cinnamon my argument stands: cinnamon is inconsistent and inferior to commercially used systematics. I am also very doubtful that anyone will be able to sniff out the quality of cinnamon with any level of objectivity. Practically, we would also expect widespread use of cinnamon in cacti nurseries if it was comparable to commercial fungicides. This is not so.

I will avoid commenting on the sustainability of cinnamon vs fungicide or the negative health effects of fungicides when used in a bedroom. These are not factors I am interested in when looking for a fungicide (my argument is solely based on efficacy).

H

[One Windowsill]

One Windowsill,

This is a cacti forum so I would assume that generally, we do not eat decorative houseplants.

Cinnamaldehyde is very different from store-bought cinnamon, and unless one is somehow going to extract it from powdered cinnamon my argument stands: cinnamon is inconsistent and inferior to commercially used systematics. I am also very doubtful that anyone will be able to sniff out the quality of cinnamon with any level of objectivity. Practically, we would also expect widespread use of cinnamon in cacti nurseries if it was comparable to commercial fungicides. This is not so.

I will avoid commenting on the sustainability of cinnamon vs fungicide or the negative health effects of fungicides when used in a bedroom. These are not factors I am interested in when looking for a fungicide (my argument is solely based on efficacy).

H

One thing I have learnt in my long life is to never make assumptions about anything, ever.

This a forum for cacti and other succulents and succulence is an excellent quality in food. Many commonly grown plants are toxic but there are plenty of others that are grown as houseplants that are eaten in their native habitat. many others are eaten by their growers all over the world. Yucca flowers, prickly pear fruit and pads, Mammillaria fruit and many more are commonly eaten by those who cultivate them.

Cinnamon bark essential oil is 60-80% cinnamaldehyde, so, practically, not much different from the pure stuff. Much of the research was done on the oil rather than pure cinnamaldehyde. If you can't tell the difference between good quality fresh cinnamon and stale, old cinnamon than you are probably a poor cook or anosmic.

Most commercial nurseries go for the easy option - buy a bottle and spray it everywhere. If cinnamon oil preparations were packaged in a spray bottle and sold at a premium by a company with a German name, they would be much more popular. The research shows that cinnamon is equal in efficacy to the synthetic fungicides usually used. I am not sure why you think that is untrue.

You don't care about sustainability? You are prepared for the world to become uninhabitable as long as it happens after you die?

[HudsonLH]

Duplicate post.

[HudsonLH]

One Windowsill,

This is a cacti forum so I would assume that generally, we do not eat decorative houseplants.

Cinnamaldehyde is very different from store-bought cinnamon, and unless one is somehow going to extract it from powdered cinnamon my argument stands: cinnamon is inconsistent and inferior to commercially used systematics. I am also very doubtful that anyone will be able to sniff out the quality of cinnamon with any level of objectivity. Practically, we would also expect widespread use of cinnamon in cacti nurseries if it was comparable to commercial fungicides. This is not so.

I will avoid commenting on the sustainability of cinnamon vs fungicide or the negative health effects of fungicides when used in a bedroom. These are not factors I am interested in when looking for a fungicide (my argument is solely based on efficacy).

H

One thing I have learnt in my long life is to never make assumptions about anything, ever.

This a forum for cacti and other succulents and succulence is an excellent quality in food. Many commonly grown plants are toxic but there are plenty of others that are grown as houseplants that are eaten in their native habitat. many others are eaten by their growers all over the world. Yucca flowers, prickly pear fruit and pads, Mammillaria fruit and many more are commonly eaten by those who cultivate them.

Cinnamon bark essential oil is 60-80% cinnamaldehyde, so, practically, not much different from the pure stuff. Much of the research was done on the oil rather than pure cinnamaldehyde. If you can't tell the difference between good quality fresh cinnamon and stale, old cinnamon than you are probably a poor cook or anosmic.

Most commercial nurseries go for the easy option - buy a bottle and spray it everywhere. If cinnamon oil preparations were packaged in a spray bottle and sold at a premium by a company with a German name, they would be much more popular. The research shows that cinnamon is equal in efficacy to the synthetic fungicides usually used. I am not sure why you think that is untrue.

You don't care about sustainability? You are prepared for the world to become uninhabitable as long as it happens after you die?

One Windowsill,

I believe this conversation is tailing off on tangents so my replies will only be centred around my main arguments:

Efficacy
The reason I describe the research as preliminary is because while there are some studies demonstrating the efficacy of cinnamon extracts against certain fungi in certain crops (see a recent systematic review: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/a ... MC4174793/), there are very, very few studies that compare its efficacy against systemics. There is even less evidence on the use of cinnamaldehyde in cacti - its mode of action isn't even known! This is in comparison to systematic fungicides which have been widely used and studied in cacti as a quick search in google scholar will indicate.

Practicality
It is not a matter of "stale vs fresh" cinnamon. You simply cannot sniff the level of cinnamaldehyde in store-bought cinnamon. The very idea is ludicrous. The level of active compounds will differ by variety, brand, quality, preparation, geographic location, and time of harvest, and is the very definition of inconsistent. The amounts of cinnamon oil necessary to protect a reasonably sized cacti collection is also extremely cost prohibitive. By comparison, I spend about $35 to protect several hundred plants for a year.

Yes, you are correct. When it comes to fungicides for my personal use on non-edible plants, my only concerns are efficacy and economic cost. Nothing more. It is misplaced to compare personal use of a systematic to the destruction of the world.

H

[One Windowsill]

The reason I describe the research as preliminary is because while there are some studies demonstrating the efficacy of cinnamon extracts against certain fungi in certain crops (see a recent systematic review: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/a ... MC4174793/)

That 2013 review that you linked concludes:
"Its low toxicity and well-known properties make it ideal for agriculture."

It is not a matter of "stale vs fresh" cinnamon. You simply cannot sniff the level of cinnamaldehyde in store-bought cinnamon. The very idea is ludicrous. The level of active compounds will differ by variety, brand, quality, preparation, geographic location, and time of harvest, and is the very definition of inconsistent.

You think it is ludricous that one can smell the major smelly chemical in cinnamon? I assure you that without any doubt whatsoever I can determine the quality of cinnamon by smell. If you buy essential oils from a good supplier they will have a copy of the analysis that shows how much of the major components are present in the oil. If you don't trust your own nose.

The amounts of cinnamon oil necessary to protect a reasonably sized cacti collection is also extremely cost prohibitive. By comparison, I spend about $35 to protect several hundred plants for a year.

I can get 100ml (2000 drops) of cinnamon bark essential oil for £15, under $21.

It is misplaced to compare personal use of a systematic to the destruction of the world.

And so, sliver by sliver, the world dies as so many voracious consumers deny any responsibility for their own actions and find excuses to continue in their old habits.

[HudsonLH]

One Windowsill,

It was never my contention that cinnamaldehyde is ineffective, merely that chemical fungicides are the more efficacious option, especially in cacti.
I believe this claim is backed up by substantial literature, whereas I see little evidence of studies examining the efficacy of cinnamon in cactaceae.

I have nothing else to add regarding the other points, and it seems unlikely that this conversation will progress beyond this so my part in it ends here. I'm sure I'll be seeing you around.

H