Seedlings and temperature

All about seed grown plants. How-to information, progress reports, show of your results.
abhikjha
Posts: 292
Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2021 1:57 am

Re: Seedlings and temperature

Post by abhikjha »

Mrs.Green wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 3:38 pm
abhikjha wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:45 pm
abhikjha wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 7:25 pm Got very good germination, so much so that I am worried what will I do with so many Melos when they grow
These are the Melocactus seedlings, white tray is less than a month old (from online vendors) and black one is from my own plants and is not even two weeks old. Both of them are in mineral substrate and at windowsill where they get bright light but no sunlight. Let's hope I can take majority of them to their adult life without killing them in the journey 😁.
Whoa! If all these survives, you will certainly have a few Melos! :D
greenknight wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:48 am According to the best research data I've found, alternating temperatures do give better germination, so turning off the heat source at night could help.
Thank you very much Greenknight :) It have been very hot here lately, close to 30 degrees celsius and even more of the seeds have germinated. But they grow so slowly.. :D This may be normal for cacti but beeing used to seedling of the more leafy species, they hardly ‘move’.. They do have greened up, after adding the light . Since it’s so hot, I took the lid off, otherwise the condensation blocks a lot of the light.
Thanks a lot!!
One question though - what was the reason for taking off the lid? If the lid was transparent, I guess it was better to keep them on for few months. Maintaining constant humidity is essential in early few months in my view.
Tropical weather, no winters! :roll:
Mrs.Green
Posts: 1083
Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2020 5:59 pm

Re: Seedlings and temperature

Post by Mrs.Green »

greenknight wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:32 am Since these have been uncovered already, I don't think there's any concern about them being too soft. The lower humidity will toughen them - it will also make for slower early growth, I'm sorry to say. There's no going back, though, don't put the lid back on, just mist them regularly so they don't get too dry.
greenknight wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 4:32 pm Their color definitely looks better, the new ones probably won't elongate like the first ones did - they'll seem to be growing even slower, but they'll be sturdier seedlings. The growth of cactus seedlings plateaus at certain points, the first being before they produce their first spines. As long as they're plump and have good color, don't worry - they may not look like they're growing, but they are growing roots.
Thank you Greenknight :) Yes, they do look greener and the new ones don’t look elongated as you say. The Melo looked a bit ‘dull’ for a while but after taking the lid off and adding the light, it looks plumper and healthier. It may have been dumb to take the lid off but I choose to see it as an experiment or something to learn from :)

7george wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 5:05 pm Opuntia & Hylocereus (dragon fruits) seedlings can be much easier for beginners. These grow faster and also need higher temps but ~30C maximums is OK. All cacti need dark nights -- at least 8 hrs will be fine during their active growth.

Just keep in mind though that some Opuntia seeds may need special condition to germinate (low night temps, soaking and washing, cold stratification) but after that all seedlings will need adequate light and usually some propagator and milder conditions during their first winter(s). 8)
Thank you 7george :) I did think about trying dragon fruit seeds but ruled them out for several reasons. The plant itself gets big and is in my opinion not that much to look at, without flowers. Which in my climate and indoors, isn’t very likely, I would guess?

Opuntias on the other hand could be of interest. Is there any species that is ‘foolproof’ and don’t need all these special conditions to germinate and grow?

LateBloomer wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:55 pm From what I remember about obsessive research on cacti a few years ago the dark period is not needed. Yes cacti use cam photosynthesis which require cooler nights HOWEVER they are capable of also using c4 when conditions are favorable. When looking at hardgrown vs Thai or just babied you will notice spines and other differences in growth. Now if it’s “healthy” or reduces lifespan or causes other issues is another topic. I personally believe they are healthier when grown similar to natural conditions which they spent generations adapting to grow in. Obviously in cultivation they can suffer less however pampered plants at one point will lead to unhealthy plants which lead to more infections/pests and rot
Thank you Latebloomer :) The last sentence in your post is worth a discussion alone, in fact I have considered starting a tread about it. I have been thinking about this a lot and I am wondering if we isn’t doing both the plants and ourself a disservice by all the different treatments for ‘everything’ possible wrong with the plants? Are we creating plants that in the end can’t grow without a heavy investment in pesticides/fungicides etc.?

abhikjha wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:20 pm

Thanks a lot!!
One question though - what was the reason for taking off the lid? If the lid was transparent, I guess it was better to keep them on for few months. Maintaining constant humidity is essential in early few months in my view.
Thank you Abhikjha :) The condensation on the lid blocked much of the light out, that’s why :) I am sure you are right about keeping the lid on, but this was my first try and I really didn’t expect anything to happen. I was a bit surprised by the germination rate . If I try sowing again, I will be better prepared and not just throw some seeds on the substrate, without any preparations for what to do nex, if they germinate.
abhikjha
Posts: 292
Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2021 1:57 am

Re: Seedlings and temperature

Post by abhikjha »

All the best for this batch and the next ones! Seed sowing is quite addictive and equally fun, telling you this from my experience 😀
Tropical weather, no winters! :roll:
LateBloomer
Posts: 195
Joined: Thu May 20, 2021 12:15 am
Location: Curitiba, Brasil

Re: Seedlings and temperature

Post by LateBloomer »

There is a plus and a minus to this argument about providing extremely optimal conditions to raising plants not just cacti like variegated and mutations and other crosses that wouldn’t occur naturally are available because of our cultivation. Now yes the negative of generations of selected breeding and even grafting to accelerate flowering/seeds lead to “weak” genetics however this can always be “fixed” by mass sowing under harder conditions and crossing with “wild” plants like collected seeds.

For hobby cultivation this doesn’t matter much but exsudo preservation of plants require hardier plants to survive. This topic kinda reminds me of how even animals born in captivity can never survive in the wild due to being weaker and not knowing how to hunt or scavenge. When that rock eaters article released they noticed lots of cacti died during adaptation from previous conditions. Now commercial growing vs hobby growing are two very different things however if the market is there people will buy smaller harder grown cacti which there has been a small shift towards. I personally think there can be a market for pure rock culture as a truly easy never worry solution for buyers since you essentially NEVER need to change the substrate and can be much harder on plants like heavy water once a month and leave in bright or full sun. Can even be more cold hardy and such.

Without it we wouldn’t have certain Alba flowers rough skin and such

Kinda pulled thread away só to bring back... all my month old seedlings (Astrophytum, ariocarpus, and lophophora) and a few younger still(started a new pot of Astro last week) have survived a night of 2C where the actual pot substrate got to 5c in larger pots and 2-3C in smaller pots. Large pots have more thermal energy from rocks holding the heat longer. There has been an uncommon cold snap here and I have brought my seedlings in 3 days where freezing was a risk. There have been a few deaths from drying out or maybe just died from the cold or maybe just due to over stressing due to high sunlight, low humidity, drier conditions and cold stress where day temps day temps max at 15-20c varied and nights from 2-8c. Some pots reach higher temps due to rocks and dark pots when in baggy method temps reached as high as 37c during the day. Obviously this isn’t optimal for growth or survival rate. Now this also depends on the species as these three can survive slightly lower then 0c in habitat.
User avatar
7george
Posts: 2628
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2014 7:49 pm
Location: Calgary, Canada
Contact:

Re: Seedlings and temperature

Post by 7george »

I did think about trying dragon fruit seeds but ruled them out for several reasons. The plant itself gets big and is in my opinion not that much to look at, without flowers. Which in my climate and indoors, isn’t very likely, I would guess?
Well, Opuntia fruits sold in stores are easy to germinate and grow but after these get too big for an indoor grower or you can try to keep them as bonsai... Opuntia humifusa is easy and can be put outdoors after you decide so.

I have no much experience but if you find seeds (or segments) of small Opuntioideae: Tephrocactus, Tunilla, Cumulopuntia, Maihueniopsis -- these cacti are compact just for pots and even from seeds are not very slow till their maturity.
viewtopic.php?t=14085
If your cacti mess in your job just forget about the job.
°C = (°F - 32)/1.8
Mrs.Green
Posts: 1083
Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2020 5:59 pm

Re: Seedlings and temperature

Post by Mrs.Green »

abhikjha wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:19 pm All the best for this batch and the next ones! Seed sowing is quite addictive and equally fun, telling you this from my experience 😀
Thank you very much Abhijka! :D Yes, I have already noticed that..not long ago I was ; ‘Sowing? Nah..not for me’ That was before the seeds I sowed germinated..now I am already thinking of trying sowing again next year.. :lol:

Latebloomer; Thank you :) I must confess I am a bit torn between the hard grown way and the more ‘pleasing to look at’ way when it comes to growing my cacti. Going trough a lot of ‘in habitat’ pics from different sources, I must admit that not all of them ( the cacti) have a look I find very attractive..The ‘on the brink of death’ look may be the most autenthic look but still.. I do like to know if my cacti are dead or not.. A middle way must be possible?
7george wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:27 pm
Well, Opuntia fruits sold in stores are easy to germinate and grow but after these get too big for an indoor grower or you can try to keep them as bonsai... Opuntia humifusa is easy and can be put outdoors after you decide so.

I have no much experience but if you find seeds (or segments) of small Opuntioideae: Tephrocactus, Tunilla, Cumulopuntia, Maihueniopsis -- these cacti are compact just for pots and even from seeds are not very slow till their maturity.
viewtopic.php?t=14085
Thank you 7 george :) I haven’t seen Opuntia fruits for sale here, but if I do find some, I will certainly give it a try! :D Opuntia humifusa is on my wishlist, lovely flowers from what I can see from photos!
LateBloomer
Posts: 195
Joined: Thu May 20, 2021 12:15 am
Location: Curitiba, Brasil

Re: Seedlings and temperature

Post by LateBloomer »

Latebloomer; Thank you :) I must confess I am a bit torn between the hard grown way and the more ‘pleasing to look at’ way when it comes to growing my cacti. Going trough a lot of ‘in habitat’ pics from different sources, I must admit that not all of them ( the cacti) have a look I find very attractive..The ‘on the brink of death’ look may be the most autenthic look but still.. I do like to know if my cacti are dead or not.. A middle way must be possible?

Yea some people seem to have gone a little overboard but I think just not using a high amount of organic soil and slightly less frequent watering is enough... if someone is 100% rock they can get away with watering weekly if weather is permitting... the cactus will be a little bloated but won’t have that excessive ballon look from high nutrient due to only being in rocks. Or if someone is using a more organic mix just watering less frequent still works in keeping a nice look without being severely stressed and and on verge of death... as much as they may be healthier a bit harder grown they are also living creatures which would be happy with some stress relief in the for of some water shade and nutes. No right Iorque wrong on this topic just more what you want and how they survive in our care
Mrs.Green
Posts: 1083
Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2020 5:59 pm

Re: Seedlings and temperature

Post by Mrs.Green »

LateBloomer wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:47 pm Latebloomer; Thank you :) I must confess I am a bit torn between the hard grown way and the more ‘pleasing to look at’ way when it comes to growing my cacti. Going trough a lot of ‘in habitat’ pics from different sources, I must admit that not all of them ( the cacti) have a look I find very attractive..The ‘on the brink of death’ look may be the most autenthic look but still.. I do like to know if my cacti are dead or not.. A middle way must be possible?

Yea some people seem to have gone a little overboard but I think just not using a high amount of organic soil and slightly less frequent watering is enough... if someone is 100% rock they can get away with watering weekly if weather is permitting... the cactus will be a little bloated but won’t have that excessive ballon look from high nutrient due to only being in rocks. Or if someone is using a more organic mix just watering less frequent still works in keeping a nice look without being severely stressed and and on verge of death... as much as they may be healthier a bit harder grown they are also living creatures which would be happy with some stress relief in the for of some water shade and nutes. No right Iorque wrong on this topic just more what you want and how they survive in our care
Thank you Latebloomer :) « as much as they may be healthier a bit harder grown they are also living creatures which would be happy with some stress relief in the for of some water shade and nutes.»

I am a novice when it comes to growing cacti but they are still plants and living creatures so I think you are right here! What a plant can survive isn’t neccesarely what it would prefer if the conditions were a little better, I belive?
User avatar
7george
Posts: 2628
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2014 7:49 pm
Location: Calgary, Canada
Contact:

Re: Seedlings and temperature

Post by 7george »

Mrs.Green wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 7:37 am Thank you Latebloomer :) « as much as they may be healthier a bit harder grown they are also living creatures which would be happy with some stress relief in the for of some water shade and nutes.»

I am a novice when it comes to growing cacti but they are still plants and living creatures so I think you are right here! What a plant can survive isn’t neccesarely what it would prefer if the conditions were a little better, I belive?
Well, cacti seedlings are like babies needing milder conditions and constant attention. But remember: "The road to hell is paved with good intentions" meaning sometimes too much of something (water) may favor more their enemies, fungi and so on. Some are sensitive and some not so much. You will figure out after several tries which are easy which do not grow well in your conditions.

Another thing. Many succulents like Huernia grow rapidly without problems and in their second summer look like adult plants already.
If your cacti mess in your job just forget about the job.
°C = (°F - 32)/1.8
Mrs.Green
Posts: 1083
Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2020 5:59 pm

Re: Seedlings and temperature

Post by Mrs.Green »

7george wrote: Thu Aug 12, 2021 2:02 am
Well, cacti seedlings are like babies needing milder conditions and constant attention. But remember: "The road to hell is paved with good intentions" meaning sometimes too much of something (water) may favor more their enemies, fungi and so on. Some are sensitive and some not so much. You will figure out after several tries which are easy which do not grow well in your conditions.

Another thing. Many succulents like Huernia grow rapidly without problems and in their second summer look like adult plants already.
Thank you 7george :) Yes, the middle road isn’t always easy to find.. :) Oh, do they? :D I do in fact like Huernia’s or more precisely, I would like to add them to the collection. Many of the plants look great in my opinion amd the flowers even better.
Post Reply