Which Selenicereus (Queen of the Night?) is this?

[nachtkrabb]

Hi folks,

we are looking for the name of a Queen or Princess or Whatever of the night, i.e. a Selenicereus. To draw more attention, I not only add to an existing post but add a new post with my question, too.

A kind guy, Stefan, answered a very old post of mine in which I offered cutlings of Sel. donkelaari & Sel. grandiflorus. My grandiflorus should be identified correctly as I bought it in the Sukkulentensammlung / Succulent Collection of Zurich. You might know their "boss" is Urs Eggli from his succulent lexika. (There is a this year's film about the flower of Sel. grandiflorus featuring Mr. Eggli: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUG-VcU-3CA. Very interesting, but in Swiss-German. )

Stefan asked about cutlings and offered me one of his Selenicereus. He is not secure whether it is a Sel. pteranthus or a coniflorus, as none of the descriptions really fit. Let me add, that the descriptions are not in unison & harmony at all. I ask myself whether it may be a hybrid. You will find pictures of the plant in question below.

The stems have four to five ribs. You see that the ribs are visible but not very deep on the adult stems. On the young stems they are a lot more prominent. Young stems are light green with a red hue. Adult stems are dark or bluish green and up to 3cm in diameter.
There are four to six outer spines per areole, not always with a central spine. The spines are smaller in the young stems and grow up to ca. 1cm at the adult stems. Spines at the young stems are white, at the older yellowish.
The distance from one areole to the next on a rib is up to 3cm.
For the bud & the flower see for yourself. The open flowers are up to 25 or 30cm in diameter. Stefan says the flowers smell fruity or artificially of banana and cocoa. (My Sel. donkelaari & grandiflorus smell both like a natural mixture of vanilla and cocoa.)
The plant climbs up on its "scaffold" (how DO you call these thingummies?!) and then lets the stems dangle down. The flowers appear at the dangling parts.

Here are Stefan's pictures of his plant -- isn't it a beauty?! Just look at those flowers.
Please mind that the pocket rules always show centimeters (2.5cm = 1in).

Selenicereus_Areole_ergebnis.jpg (51.2 KiB) Viewed 1625 times

Selenicereus_Blüte_geschlossen.jpg (95.76 KiB) Viewed 1625 times

Selenicereus_Blüte_geschlossen_2.jpg (75.4 KiB) Viewed 1625 times

Selenicereus_Blüte_Hand.jpg (79.5 KiB) Viewed 1625 times

Selenicereus_Blüte_Pflanze.jpg (91.83 KiB) Viewed 1625 times

Selenicereus_Blüte_nachts_ergebnis.jpg (81.88 KiB) Viewed 1625 times

Let me add further details of my new cutling (thank you very much, Stefan! I am so glad, whatever's the name.)

Sel-unknown-3.jpg (62.06 KiB) Viewed 1625 times

Sel-unknown-2.jpg (66.74 KiB) Viewed 1625 times

Sel-unknown-1.jpg (72.13 KiB) Viewed 1625 times

On rethinking: The plant in question has a lot thicker stems and much less of a beard (air roots) than my Sel. grandiflorus. The grown buds look almost identical. But I think the outer, bronze petals open more wide here than at my old plant, also this plants flowers are definitely bigger. The smell is totally different.

Now who knows what kind of Selenicereus this is?
Thank you ever so much.
Nachtkrabb

[nachtkrabb]

...oh gosh, I really looked out for the chapter "Cactus Identification" and didn't find it. So if the responsible person(s) would like to move this topic, I would not protest.
Sorry.
N.

[ohugal]

I have a S. Grandiflorus. The bud growth is (indeed) reddish at the tips, but the one I have has 4 ribs and is (a lot) less spined. Perhaps that's due to enviromental conditions, I don't know. What a beautiful specimen in those pictures! When image searching the S. Coniflorus, you do encounter a lot of specimens with similar strong spine growth.

[nachtkrabb]

Hi Ohugal,
after reading your mail I have just checked my Sel. grandiflorus. At least partly it has 5ribs per stem, but, yes, MUCH shorter spines -- about 1 to 2mm in length.

How about your plant: Does it flower at the stems hanging down only, or also at upgrowing or horizontal parts?
Thanks
N.

[ohugal]

Hi Nachtkrabb,

I bought it as a freshly rooted single stem cutting approx. 2 years ago. It did not yet flower and is still quite small (for a Selenicereus). I can't guarantee a 100% it is a Sel. grandiflorus. It said so on the accompanying label.

[nachtkrabb]

Thank you, Ohugal. Good luck that your plant flowers soon -- it really is a sight.
I usually invite people from the neighborhood or friends from not too far away and we call the reception an "audience with the queen".

[MikeInOz]

S. pteranthus, and the best species IMO.

[ohugal]

I usually invite people from the neighborhood or friends from not too far away and we call the reception an "audience with the queen".

This is the way.

S. pteranthus, and the best species IMO.

You think the spines are due to the age of the plant or enviromental conditions?

[nachtkrabb]

Hi MikeInOz,

what does IMO mean, please?

Following DaveW's advise, I have just checked https://www.cactuspro.com/lecture/Britt ... 73.en.html. Unfortunately it depends:

Are the spines of the branch-areoles (i.e. areoles, where a younger stem grows out of another stem, yes?) acicular = formed as a needle or short and conic?
I dare say, either these areoles carry no spines at all, or the spines are just of the normal type, form and length. I cannot say if they are acicular or conic.

What is clear: There are no hairs at all at the areoles of young stems.
Although much longer, ALL spines on the plant in question are rather like the ones on my S. grandiflorus than on my S. donkelaari. Britton & Rose call the former having acicular, the latter having conic spines.

So this would point to S. coniflorus, doesn't it?
I should love to learn the idea why S. pteranthus (the name is so much nicer). Would you mind telling me?
N.

[nachtkrabb]

Hi Ohugal,
do you organise similar Audiences of the Queen?
N.

[DaveW]

Unfortunately S. grandiflorus is hampered by its name, not now being the largest flowered Selenicereus. It just happened to be the largest when originally found, but later discoveries proved larger flowered. Therefore don't be misled by the name.

Selenicerei are very mixed up in cultivation and most get called S. grandiflorus simply because of their large flower. However it is hard to find information on which species is the largest flowered since of course like most plants flower size depends on how vigorously the plant is growing and how many flowers it is carrying. A vigorous plant carrying only one flower will have a larger flower than if the same plant were carrying many flowers.

"Grandiflorus (Lat.) = large flowered. When Carl von Linné described this cacti in 1753 it was the largest flowered species of cacti known. Paradoxically, its flowers are moderate in size compared with several other Selenicereus species."

I once read S. pteranthus was largest flowered, but do not know if that is correct?

https://plantingman.com/selenicereus-pt ... us-plants/

The key you mention is only there to point you to the full descriptions in the pages following it for you to check.

[ohugal]

So what is the criterium for distinguishing between a pteranthus and coniflorus? Flower size varies according to the amount and probably enviromental conditions as just mentioned. What about the spines then? Is it also enviromental? Otherwise there is no way of telling, no?

[DaveW]

S. coniflorus

https://www.cactuspro.com/lecture/Britt ... 77.en.html

S. pteranthus

https://www.cactuspro.com/lecture/Britt ... 78.en.html

https://www.cactuspro.com/lecture/Britt ... 81.en.html

https://www.cactuspro.com/lecture/Britt ... 01.en.html

[MikeInOz]

Hi MikeInOz,

what does IMO mean, please?

Following DaveW's advise, I have just checked https://www.cactuspro.com/lecture/Britt ... 73.en.html. Unfortunately it depends:

Are the spines of the branch-areoles (i.e. areoles, where a younger stem grows out of another stem, yes?) acicular = formed as a needle or short and conic?
I dare say, either these areoles carry no spines at all, or the spines are just of the normal type, form and length. I cannot say if they are acicular or conic.

What is clear: There are no hairs at all at the areoles of young stems.
Although much longer, ALL spines on the plant in question are rather like the ones on my S. grandiflorus than on my S. donkelaari. Britton & Rose call the former having acicular, the latter having conic spines.

So this would point to S. coniflorus, doesn't it?
I should love to learn the idea why S. pteranthus (the name is so much nicer). Would you mind telling me?
N.

On closer inspection, I reverse my submission!. I think coniflorus matches better. The spines on pteranthus are very short (5mm or less) Stems only grow to a couple of meters. Dull greyish green and flushed purple. Borg says coniflorus has yellowish spines to 2 to 3 cm long. Stems to 6 metres! ''a fast grower'' In my experience, pteranthus is not so fast. Flower (freely produced) has weak scent when close to the flower but ''almost over-powering at a distance. '' Pteranthus flower (not so freely produced) is basically scentless.
IMO means in my opinion

[nachtkrabb]

Hi MikeInOz,

I think that settles it. The spines of our specimen seem to be less than 1cm long, but that is "up to 2cm", and definitely longer than 0.5cm.
Stefan, the guy who ownes the big plant on the pictures, thinks so, too.

Soooo: Tatatataaaaa!!!! We have a Sel. coniflorus.

Thanks everybody for helping.
Nachtkrabb

Besides: My cutling is now called "Conni".