Is Lophophora cultivation legal in USA?

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Mrs.Green
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Re: Is Lophophora cultivation legal in USA?

Post by Mrs.Green »

One Windowsill wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:24 pm
Mrs.Green wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 8:00 pm Thank youOne Windowsill :) I am referring to the what’s on this list are called ‘other ‘peyotes’. It’s a bit unclear to me if these to are seen as illegal? If so, selling f.ex. Asterias is illegal..
The other peyotes are not illegal to grow, they contain no mescaline or other controlled drugs.

If you purified some of the alkaloids from them, the extract could be illegal under the analogue laws of some countries. Despite the fact that they would be useless or horrible. Some analogue laws are very broad and vague.
Thank you One Windowsill! :)
LateBloomer wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 11:36 am https://erowid.org/plants/peyote/peyote_law.shtml

… in many countries like Brazil even if a plant isn’t directly stated ANY plant containing psychoactive compounds is considered illegal even coffee which is absurd.
So owning a coffeeplant in Brazil would be seen as illegal? #-o That’s strict.. Which made me wonder how common drinking coffee in US really is? In Norway it’s seen as a bit odd, if an adult person don’t drink coffee. We are the second most coffee drinking nation, only beaten by the Finnish people :) https://www.universitymagazine.ca/count ... ffee-2020/
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Steve-0
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Re: Is Lophophora cultivation legal in USA?

Post by Steve-0 »

Mrs.Green wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 4:49 pm
One Windowsill wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:24 pm
Mrs.Green wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 8:00 pm Thank youOne Windowsill :) I am referring to the what’s on this list are called ‘other ‘peyotes’. It’s a bit unclear to me if these to are seen as illegal? If so, selling f.ex. Asterias is illegal..
The other peyotes are not illegal to grow, they contain no mescaline or other controlled drugs.

If you purified some of the alkaloids from them, the extract could be illegal under the analogue laws of some countries. Despite the fact that they would be useless or horrible. Some analogue laws are very broad and vague.
Thank you One Windowsill! :)
LateBloomer wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 11:36 am https://erowid.org/plants/peyote/peyote_law.shtml

… in many countries like Brazil even if a plant isn’t directly stated ANY plant containing psychoactive compounds is considered illegal even coffee which is absurd.
So owning a coffeeplant in Brazil would be seen as illegal? #-o That’s strict.. Which made me wonder how common drinking coffee in US really is? In Norway it’s seen as a bit odd, if an adult person don’t drink coffee. We are the second most coffee drinking nation, only beaten by the Finnish people :) https://www.universitymagazine.ca/count ... ffee-2020/
Coffee consumption is alive and well in the US of A. Alaska and probably other northern states along the Canadian border drink a lot.

I've been fishing annually in Alaska for 23 years at the same fishing lodge and gifts to the Lodge family migrated from Seiko Watches and good books to 9 pounds of locally roasted and ground brews in short order. They have big smiles when I show up with fresh roasted/ground coffee.

I lived in Finland two years and tea was as prevalent as coffee from I recall. I'm not a coffee drinker myself and like my "coffee" cold and green...i.e. - Diet Mountain Dew as my morning beverage. :D
nes
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Re: Is Lophophora cultivation legal in USA?

Post by nes »

I've talked to a couple of native american people on the situation. A long time ago it was legal but made illegal to try to push native americans out. Then they legalized it for native american use but not cultivation. Only certain people were allowed to cultivate but many native americans were raided frequently to "ensure" they weren't growing the plant. Now with decriminalization bills coming native americans are bitter that they have been through all this just trying to practice their faith so the native american church specifically requested for the plant to be excluded from the bills.
Overall it has nothing to do with collecting from habitat. Allowing cultivation would actually prevent a lot of poaching for consumption in my opinion. The big bend variety of lophophora is locally extirpated.
Lastly, my take on this is that the legalization or illegalization of a plant is a ridiculous topic. Why must we associate a plant that was naturally selected for because its chemicals prevented herbivory with anthropomorphic drug use.
Basically, we americans are stupid. I'm going to go to my neighbors front yard now and grab some morning glory seeds and trip bawls, maybe die but who cares, it's legal to grow. Maybe not legal to consume but who's going to know?
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mikethecactusguy
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Re: Is Lophophora cultivation legal in USA?

Post by mikethecactusguy »

Peyote is illegal to cultivate or consume unless you are a Native American Indian and using for a traditional ceremony. Short answer
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LateBloomer
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Re: Is Lophophora cultivation legal in USA?

Post by LateBloomer »

Mrs.Green wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 4:49 pm
One Windowsill wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:24 pm
Mrs.Green wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 8:00 pm Thank youOne Windowsill :) I am referring to the what’s on this list are called ‘other ‘peyotes’. It’s a bit unclear to me if these to are seen as illegal? If so, selling f.ex. Asterias is illegal..
The other peyotes are not illegal to grow, they contain no mescaline or other controlled drugs.

If you purified some of the alkaloids from them, the extract could be illegal under the analogue laws of some countries. Despite the fact that they would be useless or horrible. Some analogue laws are very broad and vague.
Thank you One Windowsill! :)
LateBloomer wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 11:36 am https://erowid.org/plants/peyote/peyote_law.shtml

… in many countries like Brazil even if a plant isn’t directly stated ANY plant containing psychoactive compounds is considered illegal even coffee which is absurd.
So owning a coffeeplant in Brazil would be seen as illegal? #-o That’s strict.. Which made me wonder how common drinking coffee in US really is? In Norway it’s seen as a bit odd, if an adult person don’t drink coffee. We are the second most coffee drinking nation, only beaten by the Finnish people :) https://www.universitymagazine.ca/count ... ffee-2020/
Yes strictly adhering to how the law is written a coffee plant would be illegal as would a yerba mate and Guaraná plant. Yet these are 3 very popular drinks sold and cultivated commercially. Lophophora williamsii is sold openly by the largest cactus farm and is registered without issues and can even be imported legally if one were to go thru the trouble. Obviously if you are growing only lophophora and have massive amount of dry material or extracts it would be illegal pretty much anywhere in the world.
DaveW
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Re: Is Lophophora cultivation legal in USA?

Post by DaveW »

But then logically tobacco is a very addictive drug and if it had been introduced recently rather in the distant past to other countries it would probably have been banned instantly? However with the tobacco lobby leaning on politicians, or financing them, it would difficult to ban it in tobacco growing countries.

Britain however intends to try and do so by 2030 through keep increasing the price, reducing the places where you can legally smoke, or making it more difficult to buy in shops. Thereby trying to stop new smokers and letting the older ones just die out. Whether it will work nobody knows yet? My dad smoked like a chimney and could never give it even when he tried since he was by then hooked and a nicotine addict, therefore I did not start. So as long as the UK doesn't ban Lophophora's I don't mind. LOL Nottingham, UK, of course was a cigarette producing town with many employed by Players Cigarettes.

https://farc-ep.co/philip-morris-intend ... k-by-2030/

http://www.smokefreeengland.co.uk/what- ... ick-guide/
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558cbs1012
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Re: Is Lophophora cultivation legal in USA?

Post by 558cbs1012 »

When importing lophophora, usda and aphis states that only williamsii is controlled but not regulated by the usda or aphis. I find that quite interesting. diffusa, fricii, pass through customs checks
Last edited by 558cbs1012 on Tue Feb 15, 2022 10:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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One Windowsill
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Re: Is Lophophora cultivation legal in USA?

Post by One Windowsill »

558cbs1012 wrote: Sat Feb 12, 2022 3:53 pm When importing lophophora, usda and aphis states that only williamsii is controlled but not regulated by the usda or aphis. I find that quite interesting. diffusa, fricii, caeaspitosa, pass through customs checks
I thought that caespitosa is a variety of williamsii and was never validly published.

The other two species have no psychedelic content worth speaking of, even for an excitable government agency. Of course, seed and plants of alberto-vojtechii are controlled under CITES.
DaveW
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Re: Is Lophophora cultivation legal in USA?

Post by DaveW »

I think caespitosa is simply a proliferous form of the species involved. I did once see one years ago that had flowers the colour of diffusa, so presumably all species could occasionally produce caespitose individuals? However I have never seen another since that did not have williamsii coloured flowers.
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558cbs1012
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Re: Is Lophophora cultivation legal in USA?

Post by 558cbs1012 »

type- o , you are right. i dunno why i put caespitosa, was out of it.
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Tom in Tucson
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Re: Is Lophophora cultivation legal in USA?

Post by Tom in Tucson »

One Windowsill wrote: Sat Feb 12, 2022 11:25 pm
558cbs1012 wrote: Sat Feb 12, 2022 3:53 pm When importing lophophora, usda and aphis states that only williamsii is controlled but not regulated by the usda or aphis. I find that quite interesting. diffusa, fricii, caeaspitosa, pass through customs checks
I thought that caespitosa is a variety of williamsii and was never validly published.

The other two species have no psychedelic content worth speaking of, even for an excitable government agency. Of course, seed and plants of alberto-vojtechii are controlled under CITES.
All cacti are listed under Appendix II except those listed in Appendix I.
Appendix I does not include any species of Lophophora as of the 3rd edition (David Hunt 2016).

I think L. alberto-vojtechii has the same mescaline level as L. diffusa.

I don't want to get off-topic, but there are many species of cactus deserving Appendix I status which are currently listed as level 2.
promethean_spark
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Re: Is Lophophora cultivation legal in USA?

Post by promethean_spark »

Here in california, the entire genus is illegal - probably to make identification for law enforcement easier. I think most states only L. williamsii is illegal. It's illegal in texas, along with astrophytum asterias and ariocarpus fissuratus because they're endangered in that state - kind of a bummer as I have those two and most of my family is in TX. Typically you can't grow native endangered plants in a given state they're endangered in, and critically endangered plants cannot be sold across state lines without a license. A couple species of pitcher plants can't be sold across state lines, but are legal to own and sell locally outside the state they live in. Seed sellers still distribute seed by including a packet free with orders until they run out each season, and some non-profits have licenses to sell them to reduce poaching demand. I wouldn't be surprised if the legal situation in CA changed regarding lophs sometime soon - though I still wouldn't grow them as I have an unstable ex-wife and shared custody of kids. Things like that can hurt you even if it's technically legal.

Oddly, opium poppies are perfectly legal to grow, but it's a major felony to process them in any way. My GF had some come up from a flower seed mix packet. I know of one beer brewer who went to prison for using poppy seeds along with the other grains in making a batch of beer. They did a very expensive meth-lab type cleanup of his home and compost pile too - and billed him for it! Kind of odd you can put poppy seeds in a muffin but not a beer, I guess with beer the purpose is to make a psychoactive substance and if one used a huge quantity of poppy seeds it might have narcotic effects - though the same would be true of a very seedy muffin.

Point being, if they decide to make an example of you, things can go very badly, and the current state of affairs is a complex mix of puritanism and conservationism as well as racism long ago when some laws were originally created.
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4d3d3d3
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Re: Is Lophophora cultivation legal in USA?

Post by 4d3d3d3 »

Maybe I'm wrong, but that list is for the cultivation of "psychoactive cacti", not just L. williamsii specifically. In the US, cultivation of L. williamsii is absolutely illegal (aside from the Native American religious exceptions as others have mentioned). Cultivation of psychoactive Trichocereus species, however, isn't specifically illegal, unless they can prove that they're being cultivated for the purpose of consumption. It's kind of a weird grey area in the U.S.

This is why L. williamsii seeds are illegal to possess in the US, even though they contain no mescaline; the species is specifically called out. Hypothetically, if you were to create some kind of genetically modified L. williamsii that contained no mescaline whatsoever, it would still be illegal.
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MrXeric
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Re: Is Lophophora cultivation legal in USA?

Post by MrXeric »

Just revisited this topic and found that there is a bill that is pending in California (SB-519) where certain hallucinogenic substances will be decriminalized, but sadly peyote (the entire Lophophora genus) is excluded and will continue to be illegal if the bill passes. The lawmakers cite its endangered status and "the special significance peyote holds in Native American spirituality".

The endangered status part is a bit silly, since it's already illegal to collect or even possess peyote in Texas, the only place in the US where this plant grows. And good luck getting Mexico to allow any cactus plant material from leaving its borders (legally anyway...) I am willing to bet the majority of Lophophora on the market today are cultivated plants from Canada, Europe, and Asia.

It seems that the Native American Church is also actively pushing against legalizing peyote/Lophophora. I believe they cite that legalization will exacerbate scarcity of this sacred plant in habitat, which is understandable, but I don't see how importing these plants from countries where it's extensively cultivated will affect the Church's ability to practice their religion.
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