Where did everyone go.

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mikethecactusguy
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Re: Where did everyone go.

Post by mikethecactusguy »

Hi Keith
the manager of Mariscel Cactus in Desert Hot Springs said that when things heat up, they move all susceptible plants back to the main nursery in Fallbrook ca. That's located in North San Diego County and summer temps are 10° to 20° cooler than the desert.
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jerrytheplater
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Re: Where did everyone go.

Post by jerrytheplater »

mikethecactusguy wrote: Mon Apr 25, 2022 8:54 pm Hi Jerry.
I did not see it. I never ignore anyone. So times I just not to engage. post the thread link, please. I have to read it.
Thanks
Mike M
I started to look and didn't find it. I will see what I can find.
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A_G_R
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Re: Where did everyone go.

Post by A_G_R »

keith wrote: Mon Apr 25, 2022 5:18 pm It feels like conos and copiapoa would just melt in AZ." Maybe ? Shade and don't water much when it stays super hot at night. Copiapoa I think would be OK ? I've seen them grown in Tucson, Miles2go has some nice ones. Conophytum take them inside during Summer monsoon ? IDK I didnt grow Conophytums in Phoenix but did grow Lithops.
I second Keith on that one, Copiapoas do great here in Tucson! Conos and Lithops thrive in Tucson, just take a look at Plants for The Southwest, amazing selection
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keith
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Re: Where did everyone go.

Post by keith »

I second Keith on that one, Copiapoas do great here in Tucson! Conos and Lithops thrive in Tucson, just take a look at Plants for The Southwest, amazing selection"

A couple youtube videos of this nursery cactus quest and "Crime pays but botany doesn't" I visited but didn't see much compared to the videos.
A_G_R
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Re: Where did everyone go.

Post by A_G_R »

keith wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 1:39 am I second Keith on that one, Copiapoas do great here in Tucson! Conos and Lithops thrive in Tucson, just take a look at Plants for The Southwest, amazing selection"

A couple youtube videos of this nursery cactus quest and "Crime pays but botany doesn't" I visited but didn't see much compared to the videos.
Conos and Lithops are in a couple of separate green houses in the back, not open to the public.
Alejandro
nes
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Re: Where did everyone go.

Post by nes »

Sounds like Tucson is where I wanna start my career. After all it is a desert.
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chinanjcml
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Re: Where did everyone go.

Post by chinanjcml »

DaveW wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 10:04 am The Chinese too. A few years ago one published a picture of quite a few bare root obviously just recently collected Aztekium valdezii on another Forum which had just been described and was amazed at the negative reaction he got, therefore quickly disappeared. Different countries have different opinions on free trade and therefore CITES enforcement, even if they sign up to it.

The UK is now probably the most bureaucratic regulations enforcer, so nobody wants to export plants or seed to us. Most new introduction seem to come into the EU via the E. European countries who seem to have a more liberal interpretation of CITES regulations and then these propagations can flow freely throughout the EU being classed as a single market not individual countries. Britain of course is now out of the EU so our brain numbing bureaucracy stops them crossing from the EU to the UK, even though in widespread cultivation in Europe.

The Chinese commercial cactus industry is far larger than most in the West realise.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?view ... ajaxserp=0
Very correct point of view!
There are a lot of cactus lovers in China, but a lot of them are still in their infancy, keen on expensive species or treating cactus as a common pet, because I am in China. :D
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DaveW
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Re: Where did everyone go.

Post by DaveW »

Not just China as EBAY shows, just put "rare" on a plant even if we consider it common and it sells for stupid prices. You also get some shows fanatics with chequebooks who will only buy large perfect plants solely for winning trophies. They will never grow from seed or bring on plants through their small stages, always wanting ready made plants.

We all buy large plants if offered when other collectors pack up or die, but we have also raised plants that somebody else will buy when we finish or die ourselves. Our advantage is by growing plants through all their various stages we probably have more experience in order to keep such large old plants alive if we acquire them.

Glad to have somebody here from the hobby in China. The problem is CITES and its expensive paperwork has stopped us all sharing new cultivated material around the world, therefore taking the pressure off plants being collected from habitat.
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chinanjcml
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Re: Where did everyone go.

Post by chinanjcml »

I don't think what you said is accurate, Many people like grow from seed or bring on plants through their small stages.like to spend energy on the plants themselves.

Of course.some people just like buy and buy. l think that because of them too young, generally less than 40,and they did not get comprehensive knowledge when they were child,They think bigger is better and older is better.

From a Chinese perspective, we identify with species that protect their habitats. But because China developed much later than Western countries, the research level of basic disciplines is far behind, You can imagine Britain in 1850~1900,There must have been a lot of damage to wild plants back then.it is difficult to convince enthusiasts to reduce their fanaticism about some plants.

I believe this problem will gradually improve over time.
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DaveW
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Re: Where did everyone go.

Post by DaveW »

Yes Britain's natural habitat has been gradually devastated since the stone age when man started cutting down trees. When the Romans arrived, to quote Julius Caesar on Britain, the whole island was “one horrible forest.”. Much of Robin Hood's Sherwood forest that stretched from Nottingham to Yorkshire has now also disappeared, plus England had been heavily modified by farming and urban sprawl, therefore we can only say to others don't make the same mistake we did and preserve as much of your natural habitat as you can.

A lady once said to me about the Vale of Belvoir (pronounced beaver, a French name stemming from their invasion of Britain in 1066), that it was lovely unspoilt countryside. She was shocked when I said it was actually radically altered by farming and would have originally been climax forest as far as the eye could see. Natural habitat is seemingly always what existed when we were children!

http://south-coast-central.spetisbury.net/wildwood.htm

However no habitat is ever locked in time, they just seem to be because mans lifetime is so comparatively short. Ice Ages and Warming Periods come and go wiping existing habitats and their flora and fauna out. It's really the rapid destruction by man we need to slow down.
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anttisepp
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Re: Where did everyone go.

Post by anttisepp »

Last spring we travelled with children to our west coast and back bringing a scooter for my younger daughter.
Everything was great but very depressing about total forest logging all over the country.
It's very difficult to find old wood now, imagine how hard to find a nesting place for birds, no need to complain that bugs invasion became abundant.:(
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One Windowsill
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Re: Where did everyone go.

Post by One Windowsill »

chinanjcml wrote: Fri Apr 29, 2022 2:36 am You can imagine Britain in 1850~1900,There must have been a lot of damage to wild plants back then.it is difficult to convince enthusiasts to reduce their fanaticism about some plants.
Britain in 1850-1900 was full of newly collected wild plants, many of them from China. We have destroyed much of our native flora as well as stealing from everybody else. Sorry about that.

On a brighter note, in March we had a talk at the British Cactus and Succulent Society from Xiaobin Yao of the Chinese Cactus and Succulent Union and Zhangzhou Longhai Cactus and Succulent Botanical Garden. It was a fascinating talk. None of the collections he showed had any succulents that are native to China, like Kalanchoe ceratophylla.
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chinanjcml
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Re: Where did everyone go.

Post by chinanjcml »

One Windowsill wrote: Fri Apr 29, 2022 4:42 pm
chinanjcml wrote: Fri Apr 29, 2022 2:36 am You can imagine Britain in 1850~1900,There must have been a lot of damage to wild plants back then.it is difficult to convince enthusiasts to reduce their fanaticism about some plants.
Britain in 1850-1900 was full of newly collected wild plants, many of them from China. We have destroyed much of our native flora as well as stealing from everybody else. Sorry about that.

On a brighter note, in March we had a talk at the British Cactus and Succulent Society from Xiaobin Yao of the Chinese Cactus and Succulent Union and Zhangzhou Longhai Cactus and Succulent Botanical Garden. It was a fascinating talk. None of the collections he showed had any succulents that are native to China, like Kalanchoe ceratophylla.
I've heard of the China Cactus and Succulent Union.which as far as I know is an organization of merchants who don't represent enthusiasts, just a subset of sellers.

There are not many types of succulent in China. Due to climate reasons, there are about 200-300 species of sedum in mainland China, and there may be some in Taiwan, but I don't know much about them.

In general, we are not very interested in the succulents produced in our country, but I think is good, because getting too much attention means they will soon become extinct
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One Windowsill
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Re: Where did everyone go.

Post by One Windowsill »

chinanjcml wrote: Sat Apr 30, 2022 1:59 pm I've heard of the China Cactus and Succulent Union.which as far as I know is an organization of merchants who don't represent enthusiasts, just a subset of sellers.

There are not many types of succulent in China. Due to climate reasons, there are about 200-300 species of sedum in mainland China, and there may be some in Taiwan, but I don't know much about them.

In general, we are not very interested in the succulents produced in our country, but I think is good, because getting too much attention means they will soon become extinct
The Union was described in the talk as a club for all growers:
The Chinese Cactus and Succulent Union is the first national Society for cactus and succulent enthusiasts in China. It was founded in 2017 by the Zhangzhou Longhai Cactus and Succulent Botanical Garden and was aimed at the dissemination of knowledge and information. As a young Society, they currently have around 400 members and publish a monthly journal.
There are five Kalanchoe species in China, one of them (Kalanchoe ceratophylla) gave its name to the Kalanchoe genus. That was cultivated as an ornamental 300 years ago.

Seven species of Sinocrassula, the genus name meaning "Chinese crassula". 233 species of Crassulaceae, the Flora of China recognises 121 species of Sedum in China.

32 species of Hoya. 5 species of Dischidia. 17 species of Ceropegia. 2 species of Calotropis. One species of Sarcostemma.

4 species of Portulaca.

Lots of succulent Chenopodiaceae.

Those are just the ones that came to mind immediately. Online Flora of China
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Re: Where did everyone go.

Post by DaveW »

Truth is you don't grow your own "weeds", just other countries as exotics! :D

A quote from the preamble of that BCSS ZOOM talk mentioned.

"The Chinese Cactus and Succulent Union is the first national Society for cactus and succulent enthusiasts in China. It was founded in 2017 by the Zhangzhou Longhai Cactus and Succulent Botanical Garden and was aimed at the dissemination of knowledge and information. As a young Society, they currently have around 400 members and publish a monthly journal. On behalf of the Chinese Cactus and Succulent Union, Xiaobin Yao will a talk about ‘Interest in Cacti and Succulents in China over the Last 30 Years’.

Unfortunately they or the botanical garden don't seem to have a web page, or "Google" cannot find it?
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