Nomenclature

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 6:44 pm

while looking at various sites trying to identify cacti and succulents, I have been puzzled by the variety names for one species. One site, for Haworthias, had pictures of species and then other pics like
H Reinwardtii fa tenuis
H obtusa var pilfera
H ___ ssp ____
I assume this means, in reverse order, subspecies, variety and ????? for the first, but I have not a clue as to the differences between them.

Thanks Mike

templegatejohn · Post by **templegatejohn** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 8:05 pm

Hi Mike,

Click on the button 'Cacti Articles' ner the top of this page and read the 'How to write a Scientific Name' that should be of great help to you in the meantime fa is for form or forma.

John

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 9:32 pm

Nice article by this Chippendale bloke. Who is he? By the way, I have always wondered if 'bloke' which isn't used much here has a good, bad or other connotation?

templegatejohn · Post by **templegatejohn** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 7:40 am

Hi Mike,

The Chippindale bloke is of course, me, and bloke is English slang for a fellow man and has good connotations. It is a friendly way of addressing someone, "My mates a good bloke"

John

Buck Hemenway · Post by **Buck Hemenway** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:41 pm

John,

Have you looked at the New Zealand C&SS site? They have done a wonderful job of explaining plant growth and some of the more interesting aspects of our hobby such as CAM (Crassulacean Acid Metabolism) which is the survival and growth techinque developed by succulents all over the world to deal with super hot days and no rain.

It was discoverd in South Africa by a Botanist in the 1800's who noticed that crassula leaves tasted bitter early in the morning and not by noon or so. I mean, why? Turns out that this form of survival that causes this phenomenon replocates in most hot and dry area succulents throughout the world.

We should at least have it linked to this site or maybe our own version.

The URL is. http://www.cssnz.org

I had a little trouble locating it just now, so it put CAM in their search box and it took me there. Very nice, quite complete about the subject as are many of the other educational points on their site.

Buck

Post by **daiv** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 4:01 pm

templegatejohn wrote:Hi Mike,

The Chippindale bloke is of course, me, and bloke is English slang for a fellow man and has good connotations. It is a friendly way of addressing someone, "My mates a good bloke"

John

Sounds like the equivelent of "Dude" in the US.

"This guys a good dude!"

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 6:42 pm

Prbably right, but I think bloke is much older than dude, and also more commonly used by more generations.

By the way, I didn't notice subspecies in thearticle. Where does that fit in with Var. f and cv.

Mike.

Buck Hemenway · Post by **Buck Hemenway** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 6:56 pm

Mike,

Keep reading - the article about how to write a scientific name.

templegatejohn · Post by **templegatejohn** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 10:49 am

Hi Buck,

Thanks for the link to the New Zealand site. I will have to take some time out to look at it in detail.

John

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 4:51 pm

Buck, I seem to be dense this morning - I am not finding the ssp or subspecies discussion. Thanks Mike

Buck Hemenway · Post by **Buck Hemenway** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 2:48 am

Sorry, got ahead of myself.

John's better at this than me, basically sub-species indicates a variance in a species due to the native growing ground of the plant being some distance from the true species, but the basic plant structure is the same. The definitions of this are subject to interpretation by every botanist in the field. I listened to a couple at the CSSA convention prove (to themselves at least) that 32 species of hooked spine mammillaria in central Mexico should really be 20. Everyone left the room shaking their heads. Anyway sub-species is pretty much like it sounds. Some books use ssp. and other use subsp.

templegatejohn · Post by **templegatejohn** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 10:12 am

Hi everybody,

Yes Buck has probably explained that better than I could, all I can really add is a quote from the most up to date book I have, which really only muddies the water even more (Botanists should be good at tug-of-war, because they are always pulling in opposite directions).

Here's the quote:
"subsp. Subspecies. taxonomic rank below species and above variety and form. There is no absolute definition for the term, which in recent years has been used as a synonym for and in preference to 'variety'."

So that's it straight from the horse's mouth as they say.

John