Photo of Pediocactus simpsonii seeds needed

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jerrytheplater
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Re: Photo of Pediocactus simpsonii seeds needed

Post by jerrytheplater »

Frailea parviflora seeds just harvested a few minutes ago. 0.1 mm scale bar = 100um

But, now I am not sure if these really are the seeds because I received some in the mail that were mostly crushed and to the naked eye and did not look this photo at all. I sowed anyway and I have more than enough seedlings for my needs. Now I think I'm going to open up one of these seeds to look inside. But, that will have to be next week.
Frailea parviflora 0.1 mm Scale Bar.jpg
Frailea parviflora 0.1 mm Scale Bar.jpg (114.03 KiB) Viewed 405 times
Jerry Smith
Bloomingdale, NJ
45 inches (114 cm) rain equivalent per year, approx. evenly spread per month
2012 USDA Hardiness Zone 6b: -5F to OF (-20C to -18C) min.
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Aiko
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Re: Photo of Pediocactus simpsonii seeds needed

Post by Aiko »

Frailea seeds are huge! Well, at least the F. castanea / F. asterioides seeds are huge.
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Aiko
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Re: Photo of Pediocactus simpsonii seeds needed

Post by Aiko »

jerrytheplater wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 6:05 pm But, now I am not sure if these really are the seeds because I received some in the mail that were mostly crushed and to the naked eye and did not look this photo at all.
Where the ones I sent you crushed, or seeds you got from someone else?
They should not be crushed, the way I wrap seeds up in fluffy tissue paper. I thought at least...
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MrXeric
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Re: Photo of Pediocactus simpsonii seeds needed

Post by MrXeric »

A sense of scale makes all the difference. :) I should've tried to put some semblance of scale on my image. I agree with keith that your seeds were crushed. It's obvious now that what we've been seeing are the crushed remains of the seed shell. Those little bumps are testa cells. You can somewhat see them on the seeds in my picture.

Frailea seeds are relatively large, similar in size and shape to Astrophytum seeds. My F. atrobella seeds I have on hand are just a little smaller than the P. simpsonii seeds.
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jerrytheplater
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Re: Photo of Pediocactus simpsonii seeds needed

Post by jerrytheplater »

Aiko wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 9:25 pm
jerrytheplater wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 6:05 pm But, now I am not sure if these really are the seeds because I received some in the mail that were mostly crushed and to the naked eye and did not look this photo at all.
Where the ones I sent you crushed, or seeds you got from someone else?
They should not be crushed, the way I wrap seeds up in fluffy tissue paper. I thought at least...
Yes they were crushed. But, I sowed them anyway and got at least a dozen seedlings. I am happy. More than enough for me.

But this makes me curious about the Frailea seeds. Looking at them under magnification shows them to be hollow. I'm wondering what the seed really looks like, since not a single seed I received from you looked like the photo, but I still got some to germinate.

I remember reading that ants have a part in dispersing Frailea seeds. But I forget where.

I'm hoping to open up some of those Frailea parviflora seeds I photographed Friday next week and look inside a bit closer. My microscope at work can go up to 80X. So far, I've only been taking the photos at 20X. I may not be able to calibrate the scale bar at 80X. I'll have to see if I can.
Jerry Smith
Bloomingdale, NJ
45 inches (114 cm) rain equivalent per year, approx. evenly spread per month
2012 USDA Hardiness Zone 6b: -5F to OF (-20C to -18C) min.
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jerrytheplater
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Re: Photo of Pediocactus simpsonii seeds needed

Post by jerrytheplater »

I did some photography today on the Frailea parviflora seeds. I also took 8 of the seeds and placed them on soaking wet lens cleaning paper inside a weighing jar (which is a flat bottomed jar with a glass top like a lid having a ground glass taper to let it seal. A picture is worth a thousand words: https://cpimg.tistatic.com/05020807/b/4 ... ng-Jar.jpg

In all of the following photos, they were taken at 8X. The scale bar is 0.1 mm long.

These are the seeds right after adding the water. I think the two seeds in the upper right corner may be immature since they didn't fill out the Testa or seed coat. The pictures further down will show the actual seed inside the seed coat.
F. parviflora 5-17-22 10 AM.jpg
F. parviflora 5-17-22 10 AM.jpg (68.16 KiB) Viewed 332 times
I partially crushed one seed to see what is inside:
F. parviflora crushed seed 0.1 mm scale.jpg
F. parviflora crushed seed 0.1 mm scale.jpg (70.11 KiB) Viewed 332 times
Next I carefully used a sharp pin to hold the seed down at the opening to break it away, while also using another sharp tool to break away the back bulbous portion of the seed coat. The opening of this seed is on the left side. The actual seed did not fill the inside of the Testa completely. I'm going to estimate that the Testa is about 0.01 mm thick.
F. parviflora cracked Testa 0.1 mm scale.jpg
F. parviflora cracked Testa 0.1 mm scale.jpg (60.36 KiB) Viewed 332 times
Next, I took that seed and stood it up on the cracked bulbous end to allow a photograph inside of the opening. The one I posted yesterday is much better, but I didn't realize what I was looking at then. Yesterdays photo is below the one I took today. You can see in the lower left the seed in the opening. It looks like it makes a full seal around the Testa, but there are hollow spaces in the bulbous end of the seed.
F. parviflora Looking into opening 0.1 mm scale.jpg
F. parviflora Looking into opening 0.1 mm scale.jpg (38.17 KiB) Viewed 332 times
Frailea parviflora 0.1 mm Scale Bar.jpg
Frailea parviflora 0.1 mm Scale Bar.jpg (112.56 KiB) Viewed 332 times
Jerry Smith
Bloomingdale, NJ
45 inches (114 cm) rain equivalent per year, approx. evenly spread per month
2012 USDA Hardiness Zone 6b: -5F to OF (-20C to -18C) min.
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jerrytheplater
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Re: Photo of Pediocactus simpsonii seeds needed

Post by jerrytheplater »

Here is the first seed coat splitting 21 hr after adding water. I think I may have seen another splitting, but it was on the side, so hard to see.
F. parviflora 2022-5-18 21 hr.jpg
F. parviflora 2022-5-18 21 hr.jpg (81.98 KiB) Viewed 309 times
Jerry Smith
Bloomingdale, NJ
45 inches (114 cm) rain equivalent per year, approx. evenly spread per month
2012 USDA Hardiness Zone 6b: -5F to OF (-20C to -18C) min.
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MrXeric
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Re: Photo of Pediocactus simpsonii seeds needed

Post by MrXeric »

Great pictures Jerry! =D>
Capturing the embryo split the testa is amazing. :)
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jerrytheplater
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Re: Photo of Pediocactus simpsonii seeds needed

Post by jerrytheplater »

Now at 46 hours I see I have 6 out of 9 seeds germinating. Those that were deformed and not bulbous are the ones not swelling and not germinating. I know I can remove those deformed seeds when cleaning to increase the germination percentage.

This is not the same seedling as above with the split testa, but they both look similar and are at the same stage. You can see the seedling putting out its roots into the blotter paper. I'll let these go another day and then discard them. I won't try to grow them out. I have more than enough seeds with more on the way.
F. parviflora 2022-5-19 46 hr (2).jpg
F. parviflora 2022-5-19 46 hr (2).jpg (70.75 KiB) Viewed 265 times
Jerry Smith
Bloomingdale, NJ
45 inches (114 cm) rain equivalent per year, approx. evenly spread per month
2012 USDA Hardiness Zone 6b: -5F to OF (-20C to -18C) min.
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jerrytheplater
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Re: Photo of Pediocactus simpsonii seeds needed

Post by jerrytheplater »

Came in to work today and the seedlings were greening up and I saw some white specks (fungus?) on the 3 seeds that did not germinate. It was now 152 hours (about 6+ days)since sowing.

I took a photo and then gave them to my co-worker who plucked them up with tweezers and placed them in pots that already had some F. parviflora in them. Maybe they will grow.
F. parviflora 2022-5-23 152 hr.jpg
F. parviflora 2022-5-23 152 hr.jpg (78.84 KiB) Viewed 233 times
Jerry Smith
Bloomingdale, NJ
45 inches (114 cm) rain equivalent per year, approx. evenly spread per month
2012 USDA Hardiness Zone 6b: -5F to OF (-20C to -18C) min.
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MrXeric
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Re: Photo of Pediocactus simpsonii seeds needed

Post by MrXeric »

Very nice "in vitro" germination. The seedlings look great!
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