New plants/ newbie questions.

Anything relating to Cacti or CactiGuide.com that doesn't fit in another category should be posted under General.
.ilUli.
Posts: 37
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2022 2:35 pm
Location: Orange County, CA (zone10a)

Re: New plants/ newbie questions.

Post by .ilUli. »

Very interesting. Tbh I know close to nothing about hydroponic plant care, in fact I thought it was done with those clay pebbles. Do you have any other posts about this? I’m really intrigued.
Just a beginner trying to learn and keep my cacti alive and happy. Zone 10a
User avatar
Steve Johnson
Posts: 4514
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 4:44 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA (Zone 10b)

Re: New plants/ newbie questions.

Post by Steve Johnson »

.ilUli. wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 4:28 pm Very interesting. Tbh I know close to nothing about hydroponic plant care, in fact I thought it was done with those clay pebbles. Do you have any other posts about this? I’m really intrigued.
You may be getting more than you bargained for! :lol: This will keep you busy:

viewtopic.php?p=339492#p339492

I used to make my end-of-summer reviews annual events, but I just didn't have the time to do it for 2020 or '21, so I'm trying to make up for lost time with a 2022 review. Getting it started is the hard part, although I hope to post the first installment soon. How many installments altogether I don't know, but hopefully the whole thing will be done sometime in spring. In the meantime -- in case you haven't already seen it, here's something else you might like:

viewtopic.php?t=47603

Enjoy! :D
If you just want photos without all the blather, please visit my Flickr gallery.
My location: Los Angeles, CA (Zone 10b)
.ilUli.
Posts: 37
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2022 2:35 pm
Location: Orange County, CA (zone10a)

Re: New plants/ newbie questions.

Post by .ilUli. »

Steve Johnson wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 11:01 pm
.ilUli. wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 4:28 pm Very interesting. Tbh I know close to nothing about hydroponic plant care, in fact I thought it was done with those clay pebbles. Do you have any other posts about this? I’m really intrigued.
You may be getting more than you bargained for! :lol: This will keep you busy:

viewtopic.php?p=339492#p339492

I used to make my end-of-summer reviews annual events, but I just didn't have the time to do it for 2020 or '21, so I'm trying to make up for lost time with a 2022 review. Getting it started is the hard part, although I hope to post the first installment soon. How many installments altogether I don't know, but hopefully the whole thing will be done sometime in spring. In the meantime -- in case you haven't already seen it, here's something else you might like:

viewtopic.php?t=47603

Enjoy! :D
Steve, you sent me down a delightful rabbit hole. Totally enjoyable and educational. I made it all the way to 2017-End-of-summer-review last night and can’t wait to continue.

If I understand you correctly you buy playground sand and sift out the gravel? Do you still do it that way or can you buy the DG somewhere? How fine a sieve do you use, in other words how coarse is the DG?

A funny coincidence: I ordered 3 astrophytums last week (they arrive today) and they happen to be the same 3 that you started with. So I know now what to look out for with the asterias. Thank you 😊
Just a beginner trying to learn and keep my cacti alive and happy. Zone 10a
User avatar
Steve Johnson
Posts: 4514
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 4:44 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA (Zone 10b)

Re: New plants/ newbie questions.

Post by Steve Johnson »

.ilUli. wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 3:57 pmSteve, you sent me down a delightful rabbit hole. Totally enjoyable and educational. I made it all the way to 2017-End-of-summer-review last night and can’t wait to continue.
I'm glad you're enjoying it! If you'd like to go down that rabbit hole even further, you'll find my 2018 and '19 reviews. I got way too busy in the following couple of years, so I'm trying to get back on track with the latest. Lots of digital photos archived on my computer really help, and I enjoy compiling the "before and after" pics, so you'll see plenty of that covering 2019-2022.
.ilUli. wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 3:57 pmIf I understand you correctly you buy playground sand and sift out the gravel? Do you still do it that way or can you buy the DG somewhere? How fine a sieve do you use, in other words how coarse is the DG?
Guess I didn't explain that well -- I was buying my DG by the shovelful at La Canada Rustic Stone in Pasadena. The massive amount of fines are like "playground sand", so I had to sift out all of the fines with a big piece of fiberglass window screen, throw them away, and keep the DG gravel for my pumice-granite gravel mix. The mistake I made then was thinking that dry-sifting would be sufficient. Problem was that the fines weren't exactly dry, and there was enough of it clinging to the gravel to cause problems -- after repeated watering, the residual fines settled down in the pots and formed a sort of "brick". One of our former members pointed out the fact that mineral gravels need to be thoroughly rinsed before they're used in a mix. Once I found out about that, I had to go through evey pot, and I was appalled by what I saw. Then I rinsed the mix (as I should've done the first time), repotted everything, and cacti that had been struggling started to grow remarkably well. Lesson learned, so I'm passing that lesson along.

Truth be told, granite is granite -- there's nothing magical about DG. Having to sift out all of the "playground sand" from LCRS became too labor intensive, so when I had to whip up another batch of hydroponic mix, I got a bag of crushed granite poultry grit on Amazon. Works just as well. I also got some DG from Desert Creations in Northridge about 3 or 4 years ago -- not much sifting required, and easy enough to rinse the gravel. However, I don't know if you'd want to drive all the way out to Northridge just for that, so go with whatever is easiest for you.

By the way, this is what my hydroponic mix looks like:

Pumice-DG_rinsed04242016_forum.jpg
Pumice-DG_rinsed04242016_forum.jpg (201.76 KiB) Viewed 854 times
A good range of grain sizes -- 1 mm.-5 mm. Anything below 1 mm. gets sifted out.
.ilUli. wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 3:57 pmThank you :)
You're welcome! :D
If you just want photos without all the blather, please visit my Flickr gallery.
My location: Los Angeles, CA (Zone 10b)
User avatar
jerrytheplater
Posts: 1153
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2021 7:38 pm
Location: Bloomingdale, NJ (USDA Zone 6b)
Contact:

Re: New plants/ newbie questions.

Post by jerrytheplater »

I just bought crushed granite Poultry Grit from Tractor Supply out here. The brand is MannaPro. I sifted it through a window screen and hardly got any fines. I brought a sample into the house and rinsed it. It was not very dirty at all. Makes me think it has been washed already. It is drying in the oven now. I want to see the color. It looks a bit reddish purple.

There is another brand in existence called Cherrystone. Get #2 which is 3/16" sized. It can be ordered at True Value hardware stores and you will save on shipping. That is a pinkish purple from what I've read. It makes me wonder if the MannaPro is just repacked Cherrystone.

Cost was $15.00 for 25 lbs. Kind of expensive in my book. I'm looking at other options.
Jerry Smith
Bloomingdale, NJ
45 inches (114 cm) rain equivalent per year, approx. evenly spread per month
2012 USDA Hardiness Zone 6b: -5F to OF (-20C to -18C) min.
SDK1
Posts: 70
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2022 7:13 pm

Re: New plants/ newbie questions.

Post by SDK1 »

jerrytheplater wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 11:46 pm I just bought crushed granite Poultry Grit from Tractor Supply out here. The brand is MannaPro. I sifted it through a window screen and hardly got any fines. I brought a sample into the house and rinsed it. It was not very dirty at all. Makes me think it has been washed already. It is drying in the oven now. I want to see the color. It looks a bit reddish purple.

There is another brand in existence called Cherrystone. Get #2 which is 3/16" sized. It can be ordered at True Value hardware stores and you will save on shipping. That is a pinkish purple from what I've read. It makes me wonder if the MannaPro is just repacked Cherrystone.

Cost was $15.00 for 25 lbs. Kind of expensive in my book. I'm looking at other options.
Jerry,

I've wondered the same thing about Manna Pro being repackaged Cherrystone. Manna Pro makes the claim that their grit is washed in probiotics so I have a hunch that may be all they do before repackaging it for sale. In case you're wondering, I've used Manna Pro both washed and unwashed and not had issues. They say the probiotics are suspended in vegetable oil and the granite is coated with the oil prior to packaging. I also sent it through a couple screens and got almost no fines at all; it's pretty uniform.

I was able to get my local feed mill to order some Cherrystone #2 size for $10/50 lb bag. Definitely a better deal than Manna Pro. I just picked up a 50lb bag of Turface MVP for $16 and will be sifting that tonight/this weekend so it'll be interesting to see how much dust comes off of that. I'm hoping it's less than what I have to rinse off of the SafeTSorb I've been using for the past couple years.
5b/6a - Indiana. Half the year growing outdoors, half the year indoors.

Listening to: Periphery, Termina, Queen Kona, Veil of Maya, Knocked Loose
User avatar
jerrytheplater
Posts: 1153
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2021 7:38 pm
Location: Bloomingdale, NJ (USDA Zone 6b)
Contact:

Re: New plants/ newbie questions.

Post by jerrytheplater »

SDK1 wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 2:08 am
jerrytheplater wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 11:46 pm I just bought crushed granite Poultry Grit from Tractor Supply out here. The brand is MannaPro. I sifted it through a window screen and hardly got any fines. I brought a sample into the house and rinsed it. It was not very dirty at all. Makes me think it has been washed already. It is drying in the oven now. I want to see the color. It looks a bit reddish purple.

There is another brand in existence called Cherrystone. Get #2 which is 3/16" sized. It can be ordered at True Value hardware stores and you will save on shipping. That is a pinkish purple from what I've read. It makes me wonder if the MannaPro is just repacked Cherrystone.

Cost was $15.00 for 25 lbs. Kind of expensive in my book. I'm looking at other options.
Jerry,

I've wondered the same thing about Manna Pro being repackaged Cherrystone. Manna Pro makes the claim that their grit is washed in probiotics so I have a hunch that may be all they do before repackaging it for sale. In case you're wondering, I've used Manna Pro both washed and unwashed and not had issues. They say the probiotics are suspended in vegetable oil and the granite is coated with the oil prior to packaging. I also sent it through a couple screens and got almost no fines at all; it's pretty uniform.

I was able to get my local feed mill to order some Cherrystone #2 size for $10/50 lb bag. Definitely a better deal than Manna Pro. I just picked up a 50lb bag of Turface MVP for $16 and will be sifting that tonight/this weekend so it'll be interesting to see how much dust comes off of that. I'm hoping it's less than what I have to rinse off of the SafeTSorb I've been using for the past couple years.
SDK1
My MannaPro did not have any probiotics or oil. I noticed that while shopping online and was planning to wash the oil off with dish detergent and then rinse. Can you compare the color of the Cherrystone with MannaPro? I sure don't like it for a top dressing. I'd use it in the potting mix though.

I bought two bags of Turface MVP last year from a landscape supply place. Not dusty at all. You can download a spec sheet for it at the Turface site: https://www.turface.com/products/infiel ... ioners/mvp
Jerry Smith
Bloomingdale, NJ
45 inches (114 cm) rain equivalent per year, approx. evenly spread per month
2012 USDA Hardiness Zone 6b: -5F to OF (-20C to -18C) min.
SDK1
Posts: 70
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2022 7:13 pm

Re: New plants/ newbie questions.

Post by SDK1 »

jerrytheplater wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 3:29 am SDK1
My MannaPro did not have any probiotics or oil. I noticed that while shopping online and was planning to wash the oil off with dish detergent and then rinse. Can you compare the color of the Cherrystone with MannaPro? I sure don't like it for a top dressing. I'd use it in the potting mix though.

I bought two bags of Turface MVP last year from a landscape supply place. Not dusty at all. You can download a spec sheet for it at the Turface site: https://www.turface.com/products/infiel ... ioners/mvp
Jerry,

It didn't look like any of the several bags I've used over the past couple years came with any oil on them, at least that I could tell, but who knows? Might just be a marketing gimmick. The color is almost identical. Might vary by a shade or two in the sort of raw liver colored purple that it is but I'd bet the granite naturally varies in color anyway. The cherrystone might be 1/16"-1/8" larger in size but again, it's barely noticeable and I haven't measured so I could be imagining it. Both MP and Cherrystone have worked well in my mixes so no complaints overall.

That's good to know. I got distracted checking on seedlings and watering Haworthias tonight so the Turface will have to wait for the weekend. Have to sift a bunch of bark to go with it but it's been a minute since I've made a proper batch of soil mix so it'll be nice to get back at it.
5b/6a - Indiana. Half the year growing outdoors, half the year indoors.

Listening to: Periphery, Termina, Queen Kona, Veil of Maya, Knocked Loose
User avatar
Steve Johnson
Posts: 4514
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 4:44 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA (Zone 10b)

Re: New plants/ newbie questions.

Post by Steve Johnson »

SDK1 wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 5:34 amJerry,

It didn't look like any of the several bags I've used over the past couple years came with any oil on them, at least that I could tell, but who knows? Might just be a marketing gimmick. The color is almost identical. Might vary by a shade or two in the sort of raw liver colored purple that it is but I'd bet the granite naturally varies in color anyway. The cherrystone might be 1/16"-1/8" larger in size but again, it's barely noticeable and I haven't measured so I could be imagining it. Both MP and Cherrystone have worked well in my mixes so no complaints overall.

That's good to know. I got distracted checking on seedlings and watering Haworthias tonight so the Turface will have to wait for the weekend. Have to sift a bunch of bark to go with it but it's been a minute since I've made a proper batch of soil mix so it'll be nice to get back at it.
Okay, a question for you and Jerry,

Since I'm acidifying my tap water, would this release micronutrient elements from the granite gravel in my hydroponic mix? The acidity in the watering solution is very low, so my guess is "no" -- I'm just asking out of academic curiosity.
If you just want photos without all the blather, please visit my Flickr gallery.
My location: Los Angeles, CA (Zone 10b)
User avatar
jerrytheplater
Posts: 1153
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2021 7:38 pm
Location: Bloomingdale, NJ (USDA Zone 6b)
Contact:

Re: New plants/ newbie questions.

Post by jerrytheplater »

Steve Johnson wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 6:05 am
SDK1 wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 5:34 amJerry,

It didn't look like any of the several bags I've used over the past couple years came with any oil on them, at least that I could tell, but who knows? Might just be a marketing gimmick. The color is almost identical. Might vary by a shade or two in the sort of raw liver colored purple that it is but I'd bet the granite naturally varies in color anyway. The cherrystone might be 1/16"-1/8" larger in size but again, it's barely noticeable and I haven't measured so I could be imagining it. Both MP and Cherrystone have worked well in my mixes so no complaints overall.

That's good to know. I got distracted checking on seedlings and watering Haworthias tonight so the Turface will have to wait for the weekend. Have to sift a bunch of bark to go with it but it's been a minute since I've made a proper batch of soil mix so it'll be nice to get back at it.
Okay, a question for you and Jerry,

Since I'm acidifying my tap water, would this release micronutrient elements from the granite gravel in my hydroponic mix? The acidity in the watering solution is very low, so my guess is "no" -- I'm just asking out of academic curiosity.
Steve

Granite is inert in all practical ways for our uses. The data for Cherrystone says it is Quartzite. Also inert. https://www.tccmaterials.com/product/ch ... ltry-grit/

In that data sheet for Turface MVP above, it lists its CEC. A low number of 30, but better than 0 like I'm sure the granite and quartzite have. This means it can hold some nutrients.
Jerry Smith
Bloomingdale, NJ
45 inches (114 cm) rain equivalent per year, approx. evenly spread per month
2012 USDA Hardiness Zone 6b: -5F to OF (-20C to -18C) min.
.ilUli.
Posts: 37
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2022 2:35 pm
Location: Orange County, CA (zone10a)

Re: New plants/ newbie questions.

Post by .ilUli. »

Thank goodness there is still a bit of time before spring and re-potting season start…lots to learn and to check out. You guys have all been so helpful and informative.
Just a beginner trying to learn and keep my cacti alive and happy. Zone 10a
User avatar
Steve Johnson
Posts: 4514
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 4:44 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA (Zone 10b)

Re: New plants/ newbie questions.

Post by Steve Johnson »

.ilUli. wrote: Fri Feb 10, 2023 12:56 am Thank goodness there is still a bit of time before spring and re-potting season start…lots to learn and to check out. You guys have all been so helpful and informative.
Glad we could help! :)
If you just want photos without all the blather, please visit my Flickr gallery.
My location: Los Angeles, CA (Zone 10b)
Post Reply