Prune or trim roots Question?

Anything relating to Cacti or CactiGuide.com that doesn't fit in another category should be posted under General.
User avatar
JCcares
Posts: 159
Joined: Wed May 18, 2022 1:21 am
Location: NC USA

Re: Prune or trim roots Question?

Post by JCcares »

Steve Johnson wrote: Sun Jun 05, 2022 8:18 am
JCcares wrote: Sun Jun 05, 2022 6:53 amSteve your a breath of fresh air!!! Thank you so very much for all this doing it right the first time.
You're welcome, and happy growing! :D
Hope you are proud of me Steve!!!!!!!!

See new washed photos attached.

Steve there are a few Cacti looks like they have a whole and the base? Is that of any concern? These I just did buy this week.

Also the buds on the cacti what will happen with them?

Thank you for your expertise Steve. I woke up at 4 am this morning to do this before my family each trip😂
888742D8-3C91-4102-AB3C-8AD6E8C0D8B6.jpeg
888742D8-3C91-4102-AB3C-8AD6E8C0D8B6.jpeg (192.88 KiB) Viewed 583 times
Attachments
754FAA75-45AA-4710-9541-4BEB355B4D74.jpeg
754FAA75-45AA-4710-9541-4BEB355B4D74.jpeg (235.82 KiB) Viewed 583 times
5B03A330-5ACE-4AB1-84A5-7C9906F5C960.jpeg
5B03A330-5ACE-4AB1-84A5-7C9906F5C960.jpeg (193.2 KiB) Viewed 583 times
04BBD611-F06F-4B5B-B93C-9484E1F663BA.jpeg
04BBD611-F06F-4B5B-B93C-9484E1F663BA.jpeg (249.34 KiB) Viewed 583 times
A45CABBB-F833-44AC-8D74-2E8EC9F5F367.jpeg
A45CABBB-F833-44AC-8D74-2E8EC9F5F367.jpeg (314.74 KiB) Viewed 583 times
B01317DA-346C-49D3-BAF7-C4A5D2DD3086.jpeg
B01317DA-346C-49D3-BAF7-C4A5D2DD3086.jpeg (253.16 KiB) Viewed 583 times
44546CB3-8D66-410C-9A23-6C2FE0E4DC4E.jpeg
44546CB3-8D66-410C-9A23-6C2FE0E4DC4E.jpeg (240.7 KiB) Viewed 583 times
2F5178DE-B8C3-4929-86B4-52EB30125F8D.jpeg
2F5178DE-B8C3-4929-86B4-52EB30125F8D.jpeg (290.78 KiB) Viewed 583 times
1703F5B6-67C7-4772-8571-A08CEA4CA6C7.jpeg
1703F5B6-67C7-4772-8571-A08CEA4CA6C7.jpeg (267.07 KiB) Viewed 583 times
58E4B1EA-E054-44F1-8524-50E2118B3F07.jpeg
58E4B1EA-E054-44F1-8524-50E2118B3F07.jpeg (273.94 KiB) Viewed 583 times
C9A67F3D-57A6-4B4E-B79E-A1EF7E90E765.jpeg
C9A67F3D-57A6-4B4E-B79E-A1EF7E90E765.jpeg (276.33 KiB) Viewed 583 times
CBC30B87-EA74-4CDB-A572-F9EAF7E8AB5C.jpeg
CBC30B87-EA74-4CDB-A572-F9EAF7E8AB5C.jpeg (248.42 KiB) Viewed 583 times
DA23D23C-581C-41BE-B476-2264F1B6F5BC.jpeg
DA23D23C-581C-41BE-B476-2264F1B6F5BC.jpeg (245.95 KiB) Viewed 583 times
My name is Joe I Live in Hickory NC USA four equal perfect seasons.
User avatar
JCcares
Posts: 159
Joined: Wed May 18, 2022 1:21 am
Location: NC USA

Re: Prune or trim roots Question?

Post by JCcares »

JCcares wrote: Sat Jun 04, 2022 11:07 pm Someone in Thailand he has a cactus farm told me I should “trim” the roots of my new cacti. See image below.

I am new at this and I guess the fact I am just asking this Question means I am not sure about if I should or shouldn’t trim the roots before potting them Wednesday?

Thank you 🙏🏽

All but 2 if these 8 new plants have flowers.

9BB358D3-7FEF-41E3-A0E1-85D103B34AF0.jpeg
I washed then again hopefully the right way.

If anyone see something and has anything to point out PLEASE do🙏🏽
E2B25318-E108-49F6-9918-60E4E2E24CDB.jpeg
E2B25318-E108-49F6-9918-60E4E2E24CDB.jpeg (192.88 KiB) Viewed 580 times
Attachments
C78BDD19-C441-4137-B2A6-0A0490B8FB57.jpeg
C78BDD19-C441-4137-B2A6-0A0490B8FB57.jpeg (193.2 KiB) Viewed 580 times
D8AE0711-966B-40CD-8757-0C6AB0908AE0.jpeg
D8AE0711-966B-40CD-8757-0C6AB0908AE0.jpeg (235.82 KiB) Viewed 580 times
3E5C8AEC-A72C-4F85-9B9C-4BDE871F2A7F.jpeg
3E5C8AEC-A72C-4F85-9B9C-4BDE871F2A7F.jpeg (314.74 KiB) Viewed 580 times
C5A225CD-CE31-4B34-AAC5-7162D0AAA479.jpeg
C5A225CD-CE31-4B34-AAC5-7162D0AAA479.jpeg (249.34 KiB) Viewed 580 times
35CF2100-A655-4B29-A737-72256F61A848.jpeg
35CF2100-A655-4B29-A737-72256F61A848.jpeg (240.7 KiB) Viewed 580 times
AEC622E7-D2BD-42C8-B91E-B0023AF8D033.jpeg
AEC622E7-D2BD-42C8-B91E-B0023AF8D033.jpeg (253.16 KiB) Viewed 580 times
DF5B6EE7-19D1-458E-AE47-D4691C92BBB6.jpeg
DF5B6EE7-19D1-458E-AE47-D4691C92BBB6.jpeg (259.3 KiB) Viewed 580 times
529E3F79-58CE-46F0-8EA9-17A066A41751.jpeg
529E3F79-58CE-46F0-8EA9-17A066A41751.jpeg (267.07 KiB) Viewed 580 times
898F5D5B-8786-49D5-BC2E-1840F2546A02.jpeg
898F5D5B-8786-49D5-BC2E-1840F2546A02.jpeg (273.94 KiB) Viewed 580 times
E9936AB9-5E4A-4082-A724-FC860E849062.jpeg
E9936AB9-5E4A-4082-A724-FC860E849062.jpeg (290.78 KiB) Viewed 580 times
932964C0-4161-41E9-8D77-3E10A8264A66.jpeg
932964C0-4161-41E9-8D77-3E10A8264A66.jpeg (276.33 KiB) Viewed 580 times
DF2A379C-A14C-4D3B-9208-1BC14AD35BDA.jpeg
DF2A379C-A14C-4D3B-9208-1BC14AD35BDA.jpeg (248.42 KiB) Viewed 580 times
73D2271D-CA75-4DC2-9A53-6AA9AFA11E9D.jpeg
73D2271D-CA75-4DC2-9A53-6AA9AFA11E9D.jpeg (245.95 KiB) Viewed 580 times
My name is Joe I Live in Hickory NC USA four equal perfect seasons.
User avatar
JCcares
Posts: 159
Joined: Wed May 18, 2022 1:21 am
Location: NC USA

Re: Prune or trim roots Question?

Post by JCcares »

DaveW wrote: Sun Jun 05, 2022 9:02 am As with garden plants they used to advocate trimming any broken root ends since a clean cut straight across exposed less tissue to pathogens than a ragged tear. However unless it is to fit it into a container there is no real point in cutting healthy roots. If you do trim allow time for roots to heal being left dry root before re-potting. I usually dip any cut roots in sulphur, but rooting compound will do as well, or even just air drying.
Question Dave.

I thought I think I just posted some new pictures of washing my 8 new cacti.

I do not see the new pictures I just posted do you?

Did I do something wrong push the wrong button?

Sorry to bug you Dave but I’m sure you an help me learn all this. Thank you so very much.
My name is Joe I Live in Hickory NC USA four equal perfect seasons.
User avatar
Steve Johnson
Posts: 3775
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 4:44 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA (Zone 10b)

Re: Prune or trim roots Question?

Post by Steve Johnson »

Great job, Joe! Before I answer your questions, I just wanted to let you know that your photos are showing up on my end.

For good or ill, everything starts out in the roots. The first thing I noticed when I looked at the photos of your new cacti in your "New plants/ newbie questions" thread -- the seller's mix contains too much soil and organic materials (probably tree bark). Fine for jungle cacti like Hatiora, Schlumbergera, etc., but not for desert cacti. Holes anywhere on the plant are a cause for concern, and holes below the soil line are especially concerning because that's where roots should be. My educated guess is that roots in the overly-rich mix rotted away, leaving the hole you see in the base. Also, I don't like this...

JC_new_cactus01.jpeg
JC_new_cactus01.jpeg (144.22 KiB) Viewed 560 times
...or this...

JC_new_cactus02.jpeg
JC_new_cactus02.jpeg (135.6 KiB) Viewed 560 times
...or this:

JC_new_cactus03.jpeg
JC_new_cactus03.jpeg (160.81 KiB) Viewed 560 times
The best thing you could've done is exactly what you did, and your thorough cleaning job revealed these trouble spots you wouldn't have seen otherwise. Before you even think about repotting, let the hole and the exposed areas indicated in the circles dry and form a callus. My sense of caution leads me recommending that you give it a month, then I think it'll be safe for you to repot. Two weeks after the repot, give the "problem children" some light watering -- sip, don't soak yet. Do the same a week or two after that. Gradually increase the amount of water with each watering -- what this does is tease new roots into growing as they seek out water. At some point, the plants' root systems should be grown in well enough for deep watering. There's no hard-and-fast rule for knowing how long it'll take going from sips to soaks, so you'll just need to use some judgment. You had to contend with the ill, but if you come up with the right mix, you'll enjoy the good as healthier roots produce healthier cacti. By the way, you should keep them in the shade while they're in their bare-root state, then gradually acclimate them to full sun after they're repotted.

The buds on your plants may or may not go into bloom (I think the big bud on one might be far enough along to flower). Believe it or not, even desert cacti go through a form of "transplant shock", so don't be surprised if the buds dry up.

Questions -- are you fertilizing your cacti? If so, what fertilizer are you using? Let me know about the brand name, and what the NPK numbers are on the label.
If you just want photos without all the blather, please visit my Flickr gallery.
My location: Los Angeles, CA (Zone 10b)
keith
Posts: 1601
Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2013 3:50 am
Location: S. CA USA

Re: Prune or trim roots Question?

Post by keith »

I agree with Download trim roots except don't cut TAPROOTS. Long time ago I had root mealy bug so I removed the roots on ALL my cactus and they grew better than ever, Until the mealy bug came back but that's another story.

Those are rooted cuttings that's why the roots look kinda weak but I'm sure they will be fine and Steve's method is a good one. I use Rootone with Fungicide if you can find it. Without fungicide its worthless IMO.
User avatar
mmcavall
Posts: 1328
Joined: Tue May 17, 2016 11:54 pm
Location: São Carlos - SP, Southeast Brazil, Cerrado Region

Re: Prune or trim roots Question?

Post by mmcavall »

I always trim the roots when repoting. I have the same opinio n that Download have and I systematically do that. If roots are too long it will be difficult to correctly bury them and you end up breaking lots of them, specially the thin points. A sharp cut will recover faster.
But:
I always repot in dry mixes and never water the plants after repoting. I wait about a week to water.
And I obviously never trim or cut the big tap roots...only thin roots.

Today I trimmed the roots of a juvenile Astrophytum, including the main root. I usually dont do that. But if I am not mistaken it seems that Hanazono systematically do that with his Astros...or am I wrong?
LateBloomer
Posts: 149
Joined: Thu May 20, 2021 12:15 am
Location: Curitiba, Brasil

Re: Prune or trim roots Question?

Post by LateBloomer »

Yes Hanazono trims the roots to increase growth rate since the thin roots are what drink and take up nutrients....

@Hanazono do you keep your cacti months without water during winters?

All cacti are adapted to survive months without watering however with the taproot being the water storage how do these cacti fair during long droughts? Thailand growers always trim the roots of their cacti but its to protect from rot since they don't have dormancy and are very humid but a cactus survive months without water if no taproot?

Cuttings can go many months without water so I'm sure it'll likely survive but would be interested in seeing survival rate if anyone cares to experiment and document it.
Download
Posts: 187
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2021 5:22 am
Location: Adelaide, Australia

Re: Prune or trim roots Question?

Post by Download »

JCcares wrote: Sun Jun 05, 2022 1:49 pm
Download wrote: Sun Jun 05, 2022 10:16 am I'm going to disagree with the general view here.

When you trim roots, it triggers a plant response to grow new roots. This is important as before depotting, the plant's roots are evenly distributed through the soil. But once you repot the plant, it's basically impossible to evenly distribute the roots, and then are instead clumped together in some manner.

So, by trimming the roots, the plant will expend energy growing new roots that are well distributed. This allows for better absorption of water and uptake of nutrients, and better mechanical support of the plant.

That said, I don't normally trim roots, and instead prefer to aggressively remove old soil which does the same thing.
Thank you Download 🙏🏽

Teach me tell me will so long long roots not trimmed how do you want to place them in the new pot? Is there a best placement for them? Thank you VERY very much!!! I am new at this and kinda of a perfectionist.
I don't normally trim roots, but will trim excessively long roots.

As for placement, I try to distribute them as evenly and deeply in the pot as I can, but this is rarely perfact.
User avatar
JCcares
Posts: 159
Joined: Wed May 18, 2022 1:21 am
Location: NC USA

Re: Prune or trim roots Question?

Post by JCcares »

Steve Johnson wrote: Sun Jun 05, 2022 8:18 pm Great job, Joe! Before I answer your questions, I just wanted to let you know that your photos are showing up on my end.

For good or ill, everything starts out in the roots. The first thing I noticed when I looked at the photos of your new cacti in your "New plants/ newbie questions" thread -- the seller's mix contains too much soil and organic materials (probably tree bark). Fine for jungle cacti like Hatiora, Schlumbergera, etc., but not for desert cacti. Holes anywhere on the plant are a cause for concern, and holes below the soil line are especially concerning because that's where roots should be. My educated guess is that roots in the overly-rich mix rotted away, leaving the hole you see in the base. Also, I don't like this...


JC_new_cactus01.jpeg

...or this...


JC_new_cactus02.jpeg

...or this:


JC_new_cactus03.jpeg

The best thing you could've done is exactly what you did, and your thorough cleaning job revealed these trouble spots you wouldn't have seen otherwise. Before you even think about repotting, let the hole and the exposed areas indicated in the circles dry and form a callus. My sense of caution leads me recommending that you give it a month, then I think it'll be safe for you to repot. Two weeks after the repot, give the "problem children" some light watering -- sip, don't soak yet. Do the same a week or two after that. Gradually increase the amount of water with each watering -- what this does is tease new roots into growing as they seek out water. At some point, the plants' root systems should be grown in well enough for deep watering. There's no hard-and-fast rule for knowing how long it'll take going from sips to soaks, so you'll just need to use some judgment. You had to contend with the ill, but if you come up with the right mix, you'll enjoy the good as healthier roots produce healthier cacti. By the way, you should keep them in the shade while they're in their bare-root state, then gradually acclimate them to full sun after they're repotted.

The buds on your plants may or may not go into bloom (I think the big bud on one might be far enough along to flower). Believe it or not, even desert cacti go through a form of "transplant shock", so don't be surprised if the buds dry up.

Questions -- are you fertilizing your cacti? If so, what fertilizer are you using? Let me know about the brand name, and what the NPK numbers are on the label.
Oh thank you so much Steve for your time and sharing instructions 🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽 I will return home Wednesday and show you my fertilizer.

These plants with the holes you circled Steve I just bought them from some farm in CA. I paid $25 for the ones with the holes and $35.00 for the 2 big ones.
My name is Joe I Live in Hickory NC USA four equal perfect seasons.
User avatar
greenknight
Posts: 4577
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 4:18 am
Location: SW Washington State zone 8b

Re: Prune or trim roots Question?

Post by greenknight »

Strange you can't see your photos. Try logging out and logging back in, see if they show up.
Spence :mrgreen:
User avatar
Steve Johnson
Posts: 3775
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 4:44 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA (Zone 10b)

Re: Prune or trim roots Question?

Post by Steve Johnson »

mmcavall wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 12:14 am I always trim the roots when repoting. I have the same opinio n that Download have and I systematically do that. If roots are too long it will be difficult to correctly bury them and you end up breaking lots of them, specially the thin points. A sharp cut will recover faster.
But:
I always repot in dry mixes and never water the plants after repoting. I wait about a week to water.
And I obviously never trim or cut the big tap roots...only thin roots.

Today I trimmed the roots of a juvenile Astrophytum, including the main root. I usually dont do that. But if I am not mistaken it seems that Hanazono systematically do that with his Astros...or am I wrong?
Yep, that's what Hanazono does. I'm starting to rethink what I said about not trimming the roots -- I have a bunch of cacti that need repotting, although they don't need to go into a bigger pot (at least not yet). If their pots are filled with roots, I can see why jamming them back in may not be a good idea. Such being the case, trimming them to accommodate the pot better does make sense. If I trim, then soaking the roots in 1% Hydrogen peroxide and letting them dry out completely before repotting makes sense too. With that said, I won't go so far as to trim taproots.

Something I really enjoy about this hobby -- the learning never stops!
If you just want photos without all the blather, please visit my Flickr gallery.
My location: Los Angeles, CA (Zone 10b)
User avatar
mmcavall
Posts: 1328
Joined: Tue May 17, 2016 11:54 pm
Location: São Carlos - SP, Southeast Brazil, Cerrado Region

Re: Prune or trim roots Question?

Post by mmcavall »

Steve Johnson wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 1:09 am Something I really enjoy about this hobby -- the learning never stops!
Thats for sure! I am always re-thinking and changing things that I have already taken as "solid"
Mrs.Green
Posts: 967
Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2020 5:59 pm

Re: Prune or trim roots Question?

Post by Mrs.Green »

Steve Johnson wrote; « Something I really enjoy about this hobby -- the learning never stops!» Agree and from my own experience ( not just with cacti but many aspects in life) I really think Aristotle was on to something when he wrote; ‘
The More You Know The More You Realize You Don't Know‘
DaveW
Posts: 7118
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2012 2:36 pm
Location: Nottingham, England/UK

Re: Prune or trim roots Question?

Post by DaveW »

Regarding your lost photo's did you forget to press "Submit" after compiling your post? I have forgotten to that once or twice when using "Preview" as all the pictures were then shown but I forgot to press "Submit" and moved on loosing my post. :( The other thing might be images were too large, but your others posted OK so that is doubtful.
User avatar
JCcares
Posts: 159
Joined: Wed May 18, 2022 1:21 am
Location: NC USA

Re: Prune or trim roots Question?

Post by JCcares »

DaveW wrote: Sun Jun 05, 2022 9:02 am As with garden plants they used to advocate trimming any broken root ends since a clean cut straight across exposed less tissue to pathogens than a ragged tear. However unless it is to fit it into a container there is no real point in cutting healthy roots. If you do trim allow time for roots to heal being left dry root before re-potting. I usually dip any cut roots in sulphur, but rooting compound will do as well, or even just air drying.
Thank you Dave
Question
“ If you do trim allow time for roots to heal being left dry root before re-potting.”.

How long would that be sir?

Thank you again!
My name is Joe I Live in Hickory NC USA four equal perfect seasons.
Post Reply