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Re: Prune or trim roots Question?

Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2022 1:53 pm
by JCcares
Steve Johnson wrote: ↑Sun Jun 05, 2022 8:18 am
JCcares wrote: ↑Sun Jun 05, 2022 6:53 amSteve your a breath of fresh air!!! Thank you so very much for all this doing it right the first time.
You're welcome, and happy growing! :D
Hope you are proud of me Steve!!!!!!!!

See new washed photos attached.

Steve there are a few Cacti looks like they have a whole and the base? Is that of any concern? These I just did buy this week.

Also the buds on the cacti what will happen with them?

Thank you for your expertise Steve. I woke up at 4 am this morning to do this before my family each tripπŸ˜‚
888742D8-3C91-4102-AB3C-8AD6E8C0D8B6.jpeg
888742D8-3C91-4102-AB3C-8AD6E8C0D8B6.jpeg (192.88 KiB) Viewed 1561 times

Re: Prune or trim roots Question?

Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2022 1:58 pm
by JCcares
JCcares wrote: ↑Sat Jun 04, 2022 11:07 pm Someone in Thailand he has a cactus farm told me I should β€œtrim” the roots of my new cacti. See image below.

I am new at this and I guess the fact I am just asking this Question means I am not sure about if I should or shouldn’t trim the roots before potting them Wednesday?

Thank you πŸ™πŸ½

All but 2 if these 8 new plants have flowers.

9BB358D3-7FEF-41E3-A0E1-85D103B34AF0.jpeg
I washed then again hopefully the right way.

If anyone see something and has anything to point out PLEASE doπŸ™πŸ½
E2B25318-E108-49F6-9918-60E4E2E24CDB.jpeg
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Re: Prune or trim roots Question?

Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2022 2:11 pm
by JCcares
DaveW wrote: ↑Sun Jun 05, 2022 9:02 am As with garden plants they used to advocate trimming any broken root ends since a clean cut straight across exposed less tissue to pathogens than a ragged tear. However unless it is to fit it into a container there is no real point in cutting healthy roots. If you do trim allow time for roots to heal being left dry root before re-potting. I usually dip any cut roots in sulphur, but rooting compound will do as well, or even just air drying.
Question Dave.

I thought I think I just posted some new pictures of washing my 8 new cacti.

I do not see the new pictures I just posted do you?

Did I do something wrong push the wrong button?

Sorry to bug you Dave but I’m sure you an help me learn all this. Thank you so very much.

Re: Prune or trim roots Question?

Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2022 8:18 pm
by Steve Johnson
Great job, Joe! Before I answer your questions, I just wanted to let you know that your photos are showing up on my end.

For good or ill, everything starts out in the roots. The first thing I noticed when I looked at the photos of your new cacti in your "New plants/ newbie questions" thread -- the seller's mix contains too much soil and organic materials (probably tree bark). Fine for jungle cacti like Hatiora, Schlumbergera, etc., but not for desert cacti. Holes anywhere on the plant are a cause for concern, and holes below the soil line are especially concerning because that's where roots should be. My educated guess is that roots in the overly-rich mix rotted away, leaving the hole you see in the base. Also, I don't like this...

JC_new_cactus01.jpeg
JC_new_cactus01.jpeg (144.22 KiB) Viewed 1538 times
...or this...

JC_new_cactus02.jpeg
JC_new_cactus02.jpeg (135.6 KiB) Viewed 1538 times
...or this:

JC_new_cactus03.jpeg
JC_new_cactus03.jpeg (160.81 KiB) Viewed 1538 times
The best thing you could've done is exactly what you did, and your thorough cleaning job revealed these trouble spots you wouldn't have seen otherwise. Before you even think about repotting, let the hole and the exposed areas indicated in the circles dry and form a callus. My sense of caution leads me recommending that you give it a month, then I think it'll be safe for you to repot. Two weeks after the repot, give the "problem children" some light watering -- sip, don't soak yet. Do the same a week or two after that. Gradually increase the amount of water with each watering -- what this does is tease new roots into growing as they seek out water. At some point, the plants' root systems should be grown in well enough for deep watering. There's no hard-and-fast rule for knowing how long it'll take going from sips to soaks, so you'll just need to use some judgment. You had to contend with the ill, but if you come up with the right mix, you'll enjoy the good as healthier roots produce healthier cacti. By the way, you should keep them in the shade while they're in their bare-root state, then gradually acclimate them to full sun after they're repotted.

The buds on your plants may or may not go into bloom (I think the big bud on one might be far enough along to flower). Believe it or not, even desert cacti go through a form of "transplant shock", so don't be surprised if the buds dry up.

Questions -- are you fertilizing your cacti? If so, what fertilizer are you using? Let me know about the brand name, and what the NPK numbers are on the label.

Re: Prune or trim roots Question?

Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2022 8:49 pm
by keith
I agree with Download trim roots except don't cut TAPROOTS. Long time ago I had root mealy bug so I removed the roots on ALL my cactus and they grew better than ever, Until the mealy bug came back but that's another story.

Those are rooted cuttings that's why the roots look kinda weak but I'm sure they will be fine and Steve's method is a good one. I use Rootone with Fungicide if you can find it. Without fungicide its worthless IMO.

Re: Prune or trim roots Question?

Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2022 12:14 am
by mmcavall
I always trim the roots when repoting. I have the same opinio n that Download have and I systematically do that. If roots are too long it will be difficult to correctly bury them and you end up breaking lots of them, specially the thin points. A sharp cut will recover faster.
But:
I always repot in dry mixes and never water the plants after repoting. I wait about a week to water.
And I obviously never trim or cut the big tap roots...only thin roots.

Today I trimmed the roots of a juvenile Astrophytum, including the main root. I usually dont do that. But if I am not mistaken it seems that Hanazono systematically do that with his Astros...or am I wrong?

Re: Prune or trim roots Question?

Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2022 12:28 am
by LateBloomer
Yes Hanazono trims the roots to increase growth rate since the thin roots are what drink and take up nutrients....

@Hanazono do you keep your cacti months without water during winters?

All cacti are adapted to survive months without watering however with the taproot being the water storage how do these cacti fair during long droughts? Thailand growers always trim the roots of their cacti but its to protect from rot since they don't have dormancy and are very humid but a cactus survive months without water if no taproot?

Cuttings can go many months without water so I'm sure it'll likely survive but would be interested in seeing survival rate if anyone cares to experiment and document it.

Re: Prune or trim roots Question?

Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2022 12:37 am
by Download
JCcares wrote: ↑Sun Jun 05, 2022 1:49 pm
Download wrote: ↑Sun Jun 05, 2022 10:16 am I'm going to disagree with the general view here.

When you trim roots, it triggers a plant response to grow new roots. This is important as before depotting, the plant's roots are evenly distributed through the soil. But once you repot the plant, it's basically impossible to evenly distribute the roots, and then are instead clumped together in some manner.

So, by trimming the roots, the plant will expend energy growing new roots that are well distributed. This allows for better absorption of water and uptake of nutrients, and better mechanical support of the plant.

That said, I don't normally trim roots, and instead prefer to aggressively remove old soil which does the same thing.
Thank you Download πŸ™πŸ½

Teach me tell me will so long long roots not trimmed how do you want to place them in the new pot? Is there a best placement for them? Thank you VERY very much!!! I am new at this and kinda of a perfectionist.
I don't normally trim roots, but will trim excessively long roots.

As for placement, I try to distribute them as evenly and deeply in the pot as I can, but this is rarely perfact.

Re: Prune or trim roots Question?

Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2022 12:46 am
by JCcares
Steve Johnson wrote: ↑Sun Jun 05, 2022 8:18 pm Great job, Joe! Before I answer your questions, I just wanted to let you know that your photos are showing up on my end.

For good or ill, everything starts out in the roots. The first thing I noticed when I looked at the photos of your new cacti in your "New plants/ newbie questions" thread -- the seller's mix contains too much soil and organic materials (probably tree bark). Fine for jungle cacti like Hatiora, Schlumbergera, etc., but not for desert cacti. Holes anywhere on the plant are a cause for concern, and holes below the soil line are especially concerning because that's where roots should be. My educated guess is that roots in the overly-rich mix rotted away, leaving the hole you see in the base. Also, I don't like this...


JC_new_cactus01.jpeg

...or this...


JC_new_cactus02.jpeg

...or this:


JC_new_cactus03.jpeg

The best thing you could've done is exactly what you did, and your thorough cleaning job revealed these trouble spots you wouldn't have seen otherwise. Before you even think about repotting, let the hole and the exposed areas indicated in the circles dry and form a callus. My sense of caution leads me recommending that you give it a month, then I think it'll be safe for you to repot. Two weeks after the repot, give the "problem children" some light watering -- sip, don't soak yet. Do the same a week or two after that. Gradually increase the amount of water with each watering -- what this does is tease new roots into growing as they seek out water. At some point, the plants' root systems should be grown in well enough for deep watering. There's no hard-and-fast rule for knowing how long it'll take going from sips to soaks, so you'll just need to use some judgment. You had to contend with the ill, but if you come up with the right mix, you'll enjoy the good as healthier roots produce healthier cacti. By the way, you should keep them in the shade while they're in their bare-root state, then gradually acclimate them to full sun after they're repotted.

The buds on your plants may or may not go into bloom (I think the big bud on one might be far enough along to flower). Believe it or not, even desert cacti go through a form of "transplant shock", so don't be surprised if the buds dry up.

Questions -- are you fertilizing your cacti? If so, what fertilizer are you using? Let me know about the brand name, and what the NPK numbers are on the label.
Oh thank you so much Steve for your time and sharing instructions πŸ™πŸ½πŸ™πŸ½πŸ™πŸ½ I will return home Wednesday and show you my fertilizer.

These plants with the holes you circled Steve I just bought them from some farm in CA. I paid $25 for the ones with the holes and $35.00 for the 2 big ones.

Re: Prune or trim roots Question?

Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2022 1:00 am
by greenknight
Strange you can't see your photos. Try logging out and logging back in, see if they show up.

Re: Prune or trim roots Question?

Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2022 1:09 am
by Steve Johnson
mmcavall wrote: ↑Mon Jun 06, 2022 12:14 am I always trim the roots when repoting. I have the same opinio n that Download have and I systematically do that. If roots are too long it will be difficult to correctly bury them and you end up breaking lots of them, specially the thin points. A sharp cut will recover faster.
But:
I always repot in dry mixes and never water the plants after repoting. I wait about a week to water.
And I obviously never trim or cut the big tap roots...only thin roots.

Today I trimmed the roots of a juvenile Astrophytum, including the main root. I usually dont do that. But if I am not mistaken it seems that Hanazono systematically do that with his Astros...or am I wrong?
Yep, that's what Hanazono does. I'm starting to rethink what I said about not trimming the roots -- I have a bunch of cacti that need repotting, although they don't need to go into a bigger pot (at least not yet). If their pots are filled with roots, I can see why jamming them back in may not be a good idea. Such being the case, trimming them to accommodate the pot better does make sense. If I trim, then soaking the roots in 1% Hydrogen peroxide and letting them dry out completely before repotting makes sense too. With that said, I won't go so far as to trim taproots.

Something I really enjoy about this hobby -- the learning never stops!

Re: Prune or trim roots Question?

Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2022 1:19 am
by mmcavall
Steve Johnson wrote: ↑Mon Jun 06, 2022 1:09 am Something I really enjoy about this hobby -- the learning never stops!
Thats for sure! I am always re-thinking and changing things that I have already taken as "solid"

Re: Prune or trim roots Question?

Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2022 7:02 am
by Mrs.Green
Steve Johnson wrote; Β« Something I really enjoy about this hobby -- the learning never stops!Β» Agree and from my own experience ( not just with cacti but many aspects in life) I really think Aristotle was on to something when he wrote; β€˜
The More You Know The More You Realize You Don't Knowβ€˜

Re: Prune or trim roots Question?

Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2022 8:25 am
by DaveW
Regarding your lost photo's did you forget to press "Submit" after compiling your post? I have forgotten to that once or twice when using "Preview" as all the pictures were then shown but I forgot to press "Submit" and moved on loosing my post. :( The other thing might be images were too large, but your others posted OK so that is doubtful.

Re: Prune or trim roots Question?

Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2022 4:43 pm
by JCcares
DaveW wrote: ↑Sun Jun 05, 2022 9:02 am As with garden plants they used to advocate trimming any broken root ends since a clean cut straight across exposed less tissue to pathogens than a ragged tear. However unless it is to fit it into a container there is no real point in cutting healthy roots. If you do trim allow time for roots to heal being left dry root before re-potting. I usually dip any cut roots in sulphur, but rooting compound will do as well, or even just air drying.
Thank you Dave
Question
β€œ If you do trim allow time for roots to heal being left dry root before re-potting.”.

How long would that be sir?

Thank you again!