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I water my Mammillarias heyderii (for example) pretty well during the growing season (once or twice a week)... nevertheless they are always flat and compact.... Substrate with high organic matter and shaded spots probably do the opposite to the plant...not necessarily watering regime.
I agree on the grafted x on roots idea. I don't like grafted plants exactly for that reason.
But there is no right or wrong, it's a matter of taste.

Hardgrown cactus should have more roots than Fast grown cactus, bigger spines. probably live longer too.

Hard-grown doesn't include seek, infested with bugs and pests, damaged by animals plants even this is often the case with habitat plants. Healthy look is preferred even some damage is unavoidable for outdoor succulents.

Substrate with high organic matter and shaded spots probably do the opposite to the plant...not necessarily watering regime.

Shaded, watered, pampered and hardly recognizable Mammillaria longimamma. But "lush green".

7george wrote: ↑Sat Jul 23, 2022 1:46 pm

Substrate with high organic matter and shaded spots probably do the opposite to the plant...not necessarily watering regime.

Shaded, watered, pampered and hardly recognizable Mammillaria longimamma. But "lush green".

Yes -- a good example of what not to do. Before we blame the incredibly weak spines in that photo on the shade, what we're seeing is the long-term consequence of a fertilizer which is way too high in N and way too low in K. When K is 1.5 times higher than N, spine formation will be strong and much better for overall plant health.

Shade isn't necessarily a problem because many cactus species get natural shade in the wild. Of course they may be getting a certain amount of full sun at various times during the day too, but filtered sun in a greenhouse works just as well. For those of you who don't believe me, I'll show you many examples illustrating cacti being grown at the Huntington Botanical Garden's desert greenhouse:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/134602763 ... 9863777449

The lighting in there is wonderful. However, I know the Huntington's fertilizer regimen, and the only observational criticism I'll make is that the some of their cacti show nutrient deficiencies caused by a fert that isn't as well-balanced as it could be. Some species are more tolerant of the imbalance than others, and I could see that in some of my "intolerant" cacti -- after I started following the fert regimen I learned from MikeInOz, the improvement in those plants has been pretty amazing.

Again, thank you all for contributing to the discussion Very interesting to read different peoples view on the topic. I found out that I unintentioanally had hard grown most of my cacti, prior to this discussion, hence the making of this tread.

Being afraid of overwatering my cacti, I gave them to little water each time and with to long intervalls. Since I repotted most of the cacti ( again) last year, I didn’t expect much growth but seeing that the plants mostly just stood there without any ‘action’ this year too.. It dawned on me that ‘if in doubt, don’t water’ was taken to literally by me, so to speak.

Cacti aren’t tomatos but plants that show little or no signs of life (as in growing at least some..) are from my point of view not very rewarding or fun. So I decided to water quite a lot more and giving them some ferts. Which did gave results. The plants do look happier ( from my point of view at least) and are showing signs of actual growth, not just standing there. Which for me are the point of keeping live plants.

Some of the contributors in this tread said that there really are not a right or wrong way to do it, it all boils down to personal choice. Sounds reasonable to me, as long as the plants don’t die from more or less care.

As for the pictured M.longimamma above, any idea of how old this plant is?

When it comes to cacti in habitat ( or other plants for that matter) do they grow were they grow because its their preferred conditions or have the adapted to the environment, in many cases probably exsisting on the edge of what they can tolerate probably? With that in mind, is it really ‘wrong’ if they look a bit different in cultivation due to more acces to water/ nutrients/ and sheltered from grazing and pests? It is well known that people who grow up on a poor diet tends to be shorter than people on a better diet. Is the taller ones less ‘natural’ then? Probably not the best example but it was what came to mind first.

7 george; do you have before and after pics of the mentioned plants? ( new fert.regime)

Mrs.Green wrote: ↑Sun Jul 24, 2022 2:04 pmCacti aren’t tomatos but plants that show little or no signs of life (as in growing at least some..) are from my point of view not very rewarding or fun. So I decided to water quite a lot more and giving them some ferts. Which did gave results. The plants do look happier ( from my point of view at least) and are showing signs of actual growth, not just standing there. Which for me are the point of keeping live plants.

The only way to water cacti in the growing season is -- water deeply so that the mix is completely saturated. If the mix is correct (free-draining and not too rich in soil/organic materials), and the cacti are in properly sized pots, their roots "wick up" the water as the mix dries out. It sounds like you have the right watering technique now, so the only thing you'll want to do is make sure that the mix is completely dry from the top to the bottom of the pot before you water again. Some growers can feel their pots by hand to tell if the mix is wet or dry, then water when it's dry. I never developed the talent for it, so I have to rely on watering schedules. Here's a "scientific" approach to help you determine a watering schedule:

• Water the pots to completely saturate the mix, then let the water drip out until it stops dripping.

• Using a kitchen scale, weigh each pot, then write down the date and weights.

• Weigh the pots every day or two, and make a mental note of the weights.

• When the weight of each pot is exactly the same after two or three days, the mix is completely dry -- write down the date. Now you have the basis for a watering schedule you can follow.

Good news is that once you go through the weighing process, you won't have to do it again.

Mrs.Green wrote: ↑Sun Jul 24, 2022 2:04 pmWhen it comes to cacti in habitat ( or other plants for that matter) do they grow were they grow because its their preferred conditions or have the adapted to the environment, in many cases probably exsisting on the edge of what they can tolerate probably? With that in mind, is it really ‘wrong’ if they look a bit different in cultivation due to more acces to water/ nutrients/ and sheltered from grazing and pests?

I know this is an odd way of thinking about it, but...

If cacti were being given a choice between fending for themselves in the wild (long droughts, nutrient-poor native soils, insect pests and predators having their way with the plants) and being cared for by attentive growers who know what's best for the long-term health of their plants, which choice do you think those cacti would make? No disrespect to growers who prefer the "hard" growing style, but I would caution against any preconceived notions of what cacti are "supposed" to look like.

Mrs.Green wrote: ↑Sun Jul 24, 2022 2:04 pm7 george; do you have before and after pics of the mentioned plants? ( new fert.regime) ??

Think that's meant for me, Mrs. Green...

I was putting annual end-of-summer reviews up on my Member Blogs thread from 2012 to 2019, but I had to skip out on the last couple of summers. With another one ending soon, I'll make up for lost time with a 2022 review after I finish the newest big end-of-summer photo shoot in late September/early October. I love compiling "before and after" photos, so we'll be able to see what my cacti look like over the course of the 2019-2022 growing seasons. The comparisons I'll show you are 2019 (before I started supplementing my fertilizer with Potassium sulfate), 2020 (end of that summer when I started the supplementation), 2021 (a full growing season with higher Potassium), and this year when I upped my fert game with the addition of a Cal-Mag supplement. Many (perhaps all) of our members can probably tell the difference between "hard" and "lush" growing styles, so the 2022 review should be a good opportunity to demonstrate the third style I learned from MikeInOz. And I'll be sure to point out my formerly "intolerant" cacti.

You should water any potted plant until water flows freely from the drain holes - you don't want any dry pockets, and you want to flush out excess salts.This doesn't change when growing cacti "hard" - if anything it's even more important, since you let them get very dry between waterings. Not a bad idea to give them a second shot of water in a few minutes, just to make sure they're fully soaked.

Exceptions are cacti in the dormant season, which may need just a sip to keep them from shriveling too much or casting off their entire root system, and cuttings that don't yet have roots down deep.

When it rains in the desert, it generally comes in the form of torrential thundershowers - flash floods are a serious hazard. Cacti are adapted to store up a lot of water at such times, you mimic conditions in habitat when you give them a deep soaking, not a little dribble. Again, there are exceptions - in some areas, cacti survive on condensation from fog. That doesn't mean the wouldn't prefer a good drink.

Steve Johnson wrote: ↑Sun Jul 24, 2022 9:57 pm
Good news is that once you go through the weighing process, you won't have to do it again.

It seems to be excellent procedure, but, IMVHO, it works well in the stable weather conditions. In LA, during the summer, can be hot or... very hot (correct me, if I am wrong). In most of European cities, at least in those in the more northern parts, the temperature can change from 65°F to 90°F during a one week. I do not think that water uptake is independent of the weather.

Tomek B. wrote: ↑Mon Jul 25, 2022 8:48 pmIt seems to be excellent procedure, but, IMVHO, it works well in the stable weather conditions. In LA, during the summer, can be hot or... very hot (correct me, if I am wrong). In most of European cities, at least in those in the more northern parts, the temperature can change from 65°F to 90°F during a one week. I do not think that water uptake is independent of the weather.

You make a fair point, and yes -- watering schedules are fine, but unusually cool periods during spring and summer should be taken into account if the schedule says "water", but cool daytime weather says "hold off". This is simply a matter of using some good judgment for growers living in more northern climates.

Well..I cant keep ducking this thread much longer. The reason for doing so..who likes to admit they have been plain stupid.. I have been growing ‘ordinary’ houseplants for decades, so I should have understood all by myself that even cacti needs enough water to thrive.. On top of that I already knew or rather have read that deepwatering was important..so why did it take me almost two years to realize it?

As mentioned earlier, I took the ‘when in doubt, don’t water’ to litterally..It may be perfect advice for those who tend to love their plants to death with water but I can honestly say that I have lost close to zero plants from overwatering in the past.

It makes perfect sence too give the cacti deep waterings and let the substrate dry out before next watering ( generally speaking) instead of doing as I did, a little water and the substrate dry out before next sip.. Well, well..better late than never, I guess

Thanks a lot Steve Johnson( yes the quote was ment for you and I do really look forward to seeing the before and after pics! ) , Greenknight and Tomek B

I have no doubt that the weighing the pot method could work but I know myself..and with such a laborous task ahead before watering, I am afraid that the cacti wouldnt just don’t grow much, they would dry out completely.. *lazy*

I go with BryanT, greenknight & Steve Johnson -- DaveW has found a good formulation:

Something in between hard grown and over bloated show specimens. Reasonably hard grown but to look as though they are actually growing.

I have no time nor energy to pamper my plants, they will be out during summer as possible. But I know they are cultivated, not wild & it's ok & well if that is visible. Most important: I try to keep them all healthy, happy & content.

Of course I only do so for the show most of them put on just for me...
Nachtkrabb

greenknight wrote: ↑Mon Jul 25, 2022 2:06 am You should water any potted plant until water flows freely from the drain holes - you don't want any dry pockets, and you want to flush out excess salts.This doesn't change when growing cacti "hard" - if anything it's even more important, since you let them get very dry between waterings. Not a bad idea to give them a second shot of water in a few minutes, just to make sure they're fully soaked.

Exceptions are cacti in the dormant season, which may need just a sip to keep them from shriveling too much or casting off their entire root system, and cuttings that don't yet have roots down deep.

When it rains in the desert, it generally comes in the form of torrential thundershowers - flash floods are a serious hazard. Cacti are adapted to store up a lot of water at such times, you mimic conditions in habitat when you give them a deep soaking, not a little dribble. Again, there are exceptions - in some areas, cacti survive on condensation from fog. That doesn't mean the wouldn't prefer a good drink.

I would not generalize for all types of cacti. Copiapoas do well with just surface watering in many cases. I do not remember also of a homegrown cactus being dead from kept dry let say 6 months esp. in winter. Even most roots survive intact such a drought that is easy to check when you re-pot in spring, March or April. What is "shriveling too much" ?? This is normal for many desert cacti that even hide under ground surface in dry season and successfully emerge when rains (=watering) begins. Strongly disagree with you and Steve about this topic. Even my winter home atmosphere is pretty dry I never lose plants because of being kept dry but from overwatering. Keeping cacti inflated in full volume year-round is rather part of "lush-green" showy approach... The reason cacti have ribs and tubercles is to contact their body along their seams.

Keeping cacti inflated in full volume year-round is rather part of "lush-green" showy approach..." Part of the mass production of cactus. Plus most cactus wont flower grown like that .

I know I can leave all my cacti & succulents unattended when going somewhere for a couple of weeks. Not the same story with other plants, crops and pets. The reason I have no pets at home. Spiders also are self sustained.