Old man of Andes rot

Trouble shoot problems you are having with your cactus.
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Steve Johnson
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Re: Old man of Andes rot

Post by Steve Johnson »

FredBW wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 11:20 amI do know those two months of February are going to be tough though :)
Yes, I sure understand how you feel. IMO keeping the plant upside down is the best way until you're ready to repot in the spring. Now, here's something that may help you further...

I got a lovely little Mammillaria perezdelarosae from Miles' To Go in December 2013. Not so little anymore as it kept growing and growing -- here it is in September 2021:

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Not etiolated, but elongated a lot more than is normal for the species. The lines show you where I plan on cutting off the head for rooting and cutting off the elongated part so that I have the base and its root system there for growing offsets. Thanks to our professional horticulturalist-in-residence, this gave me an idea on how to approach the rooting process:
MikeInOz wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 3:25 am I do use sulphur to dust large cuts. The trick is to properly season the cut. I normally sit the plant upside down in an airy shed until the wound is quite hard and the plant body dehydrated a bit then sit in a styrofoam cutting box on dry sand with a touch of humus in a warm slightly shaded spot. Lightly misting now and then seems to stimulate rooting, then when the roots have broken, a good soak followed by complete drying and repeat the cycle. I find it's good to let the plant root in the box for a whole season before lifting.
I'll modify Mike's approach a little bit -- instead of using a styrofoam cutting box (which I don't have anyway) and dry sand with a touch of humus (which I don't have either), I'll use a glazed ceramic pot and a fine 60/40 pumice and granite gravel mix ("fine" means a grain size of 1 mm.-3 mm., which is finer than the mix I generally use for my cacti). Unfortunately circumstances prevented me from doing the chop-chop, but I will be able to do it early next spring. Once I put the perezdelarosae's head into my version of Mike's cutting box, would I be patient enough to follow the rest of his advice? Can't argue with his expertise, so the answer is yes. And I believe that what Mike and I are suggesting here should work well for you too.

By the way, why did the perezdelarosae get so elongated? At first I thought that it wasn't getting enough sun earlier in its life under my care, and this may have something to do with it. However, I think the bigger problem was 7 years of too much Nitrogen and not enough Potassium. I started correcting the imbalance by adding a small amount of Potassium sulfate to my Dyna-Gro 7-7-7 watering solution last year, upping my fertilizer game with a Cal-Mag supplement this year, so the perezdelarosae should be happier once the head roots and the base begins offsetting.
If you just want photos without all the blather, please visit my Flickr gallery.
My location: Los Angeles, CA (Zone 10b)
FredBW
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Re: Old man of Andes rot

Post by FredBW »

Pumice is kind of hard to come by where I live. But I have been buying chicken grit,and I bought a Bonsai sieve (Which i have been using WAY more than I thought I would). So I can probably come up with the granite.
Would napa floor dry work in place of Pumice? Or Perlite. It is easy to come by here. I have been using a lot of it.
I had kind of been leaning towards using a little CoCo Coir (Which would probably work for Humus). I bought a pot with 2 San pedro pretty reasonable that I knew were cuttings. They were in 100% CoCo Coir. So i bought some more off of amazon and seperated them and put them back in 100% Coco coir. The have grown like weeds over the summer. I also have other things in that stuff that seems extremely happy!
Everything i have read says my sick cactus hates high humidity.( It has been like a sauna here the last few weeks,which didn't do it any good) But I figure it HAS to have lots of grit. And had plans of only using a little CoCo Coir
But Iduno about a whole growing season. Around here it's first of may when we get by frosts. That's over 7 months. I do have a couple mars grow lights,so I might need to wake it up from dormancy early. I don't think carrying a cactus in and outside to evade frost would help it root.
Looks like I'll have plenty of time to make decisions though(or I will if nothing goes wrong)
One thing for sure Steve. I bet it takes 2 people to move that cactus (3 would probably be better :mrgreen: )
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Steve Johnson
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Re: Old man of Andes rot

Post by Steve Johnson »

I'm not a big fan of Perlite only because it's a floaty pain in the backside -- that stuff gets all over one's plants when they're watered. However, since you can easily get Perlite, a nice thick layer of gravel top dressing keeps the floaty stuff down, so I'll recommend this if you're not already doing it.

I think your game plan should work out well, and if I was a betting man, I'd bet on the Old Man of the Andes growing healthy new roots by the end of next summer. Best of luck, Fred! :)
If you just want photos without all the blather, please visit my Flickr gallery.
My location: Los Angeles, CA (Zone 10b)
FredBW
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Re: Old man of Andes rot

Post by FredBW »

Thanks for the kind words. if it doesn't make it ,it wont be because of lack of effort.
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Re: Old man of Andes rot

Post by FredBW »

I panicked this morning when I saw my cactus. The sulfur was goo and I had thought rot had set in again. It was time to go to work so I just left it and planed on cutting more off when I got home tonight.
When I got back home I took it outside thinking the worse. But i started wiping it off with paper towel after paper towel,and then got some proxide to really clean it off. And I "think" it's OK. I think all the sulfur I put on it just got wet.
i have been checking it almost daily,and the sulfur I poured on it has always for the most part looked dry. But this morning it was wet and looked like mushey goo. It's like it started excreting moisture all of a sudden. Where the wound is,it is as damp as when I first cut it ,but there really aren't any soft spots. I think the orange spots are where the sulfur leached in. I have had it upside down all of this time. Iduno, I am going to cut off the stalk in the center,and pour more sulfur on it and put a fan on it for a day or two,and see if it stays dry.
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Steve Johnson
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Re: Old man of Andes rot

Post by Steve Johnson »

Unfortunately this may be a case of closing the barn door after the horses left...

See the following:

https://www.mrhouseplant.com/blog/house ... useplants/

Forget Cinnamon -- IMO you would've been better off if you treated the cut with sulfur powder right from the get-go. I realize how disappointing this must be for you, but learning the hard way is still learning. If you ever find yourself in another "cactus surgery" situation, you'll know what to do next time.
If you just want photos without all the blather, please visit my Flickr gallery.
My location: Los Angeles, CA (Zone 10b)
FredBW
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Re: Old man of Andes rot

Post by FredBW »

I believe it's been 14 days since I first cut it. I only had cinnamon on it the first couple days waiting on the Sulfur,so I believe it's had sulfur for 12 of 14 days. I honestly don't believe having cinnamon on it the first 2 days negatively affected it. Plus part of those first 2 days it rooting powder.
I am far from throwing in the towel. If I thought what was going on was rot I would have cut it off again. Not to say it isn't going rotten,just i didn't see any hard evidence (damp sulfur looks like rot). I think one big mistake i might have made was having it in the basement with no air movement.
I have a small fan on it now. We'll see. And thanks for the advice early on,which is how it's had sulfur for 12 days.
Weather is pretty unpredictable here this time of year as far as leaving something like this outside. It's been pushing 100 and extremely humid the last three days. The high tomorrow is 65. So I think it's still best in the basement.
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jerrytheplater
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Re: Old man of Andes rot

Post by jerrytheplater »

Did you bevel the cut surface the second time? Helps against the shrinking and hollow bottom that forms otherwise.
Jerry Smith
Bloomingdale, NJ
45 inches (114 cm) rain equivalent per year, approx. evenly spread per month
2012 USDA Hardiness Zone 6b: -5F to OF (-20C to -18C) min.
FredBW
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Re: Old man of Andes rot

Post by FredBW »

jerrytheplater wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 12:56 am Did you bevel the cut surface the second time? Helps against the shrinking and hollow bottom that forms otherwise.
Jerry. You have no idea how glad i am to hear you ask that 8) I was kind of concerned it was shrinking too much,but with you asking that,it sounds like it might be normal.
I didn't really want to cut on it again,for risk of infection. But it really does need it. And hey,I still have 3/4 of a bottle of sulfur left :)
I think the fan is helping. The new sulfur I put on yesterday looked like it might be dryer tonight than it did this morning.
I think I will wait until Sunday,and clean it up again,and if I still don't see anything alarming i will trim it a second time,and pour on more sulfur.
Thanks again :wink:
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jerrytheplater
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Re: Old man of Andes rot

Post by jerrytheplater »

FredBW wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 1:42 am
jerrytheplater wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 12:56 am Did you bevel the cut surface the second time? Helps against the shrinking and hollow bottom that forms otherwise.
Jerry. You have no idea how glad i am to hear you ask that 8) I was kind of concerned it was shrinking too much,but with you asking that,it sounds like it might be normal.
I didn't really want to cut on it again,for risk of infection. But it really does need it. And hey,I still have 3/4 of a bottle of sulfur left :)
I think the fan is helping. The new sulfur I put on yesterday looked like it might be dryer tonight than it did this morning.
I think I will wait until Sunday,and clean it up again,and if I still don't see anything alarming i will trim it a second time,and pour on more sulfur.
Thanks again :wink:
I just scrolled back in this thread and see I asked you back on 9/8 if you beveled the cut. I am getting forgetful.
Jerry Smith
Bloomingdale, NJ
45 inches (114 cm) rain equivalent per year, approx. evenly spread per month
2012 USDA Hardiness Zone 6b: -5F to OF (-20C to -18C) min.
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anttisepp
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Re: Old man of Andes rot

Post by anttisepp »

I want to remind only that in many cases it's very useful at beginning to treat plant's cut surfaces with hydrogen peroxide 3%.
FredBW
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Re: Old man of Andes rot

Post by FredBW »

Ha Jerry :) My memory SURE isn't what it used to be, But you asked if i beveled it a second time,and I have only done it once. A couple days after I cut the rot off. Whether that was your intent or not it certainly needs it again.
It truly is looking like a fan is what it needed. The sulfur is almost completely dry,and i still plan on beveling it again if it still looks OK Sunday.
I have a spray bottle for spraying seeds with peroxide. Thank you for the advice. If I bevel it again I will spray it,and put some new sulfur on it :wink:
FredBW
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Re: Old man of Andes rot

Post by FredBW »

I think this cactus would have already been callused over if I would have had a fan on it all along.
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The stem in the center was cut flush 4 days ago. it contracted that much in 4 days with a fan on it.
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here it is after vacuuming sulfur off with small shop vac
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And here it is after trimming the edge and center stem again. (and spraying with peroxide) :wink:
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It is a very windy day. So I will leave it outside in the shade and pour more sulfur on it tonight.
I think just maybe it will be OK. This thing has turned into an obsession :)
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Steve Johnson
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Re: Old man of Andes rot

Post by Steve Johnson »

A question for you, Fred:
  • How tall was the stem when you first got the plant? Let me know the height in inches.
  • How many inches of stem do you have left?
The answer will tell us if the chances of saving the plant are good or bad.
If you just want photos without all the blather, please visit my Flickr gallery.
My location: Los Angeles, CA (Zone 10b)
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Steve Johnson
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Re: Old man of Andes rot

Post by Steve Johnson »

Update -- FYI, species name for Old Man of the Andes will be either Oreocereus trollii or O. celsianus. Miles' To Go has O. trollii in stock now, so I think you might want to buy one as an "insurance" plant in case your rooting effort doesn't work out. I don't think it's too late in the year for you -- if you receive one from Miles Anderson in the next week or so, you can just winter it over in your basement. I realize that you'll be getting a young plant, but since it'll be healthy and well-grown too, you'll enjoy watching it grow over the years.
If you just want photos without all the blather, please visit my Flickr gallery.
My location: Los Angeles, CA (Zone 10b)
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