Winter hibernation questions #3

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JCcares
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Winter hibernation questions #3

Post by JCcares »

For me Hickory NC it is time to bring my babies inside.

See images.

Question’s?

This is my ONLY opinion when you keep my cacti until next Spring. The average temperature where you see all my cacti will be 64° never below 59°F

The sliding glass door is on the west wall of my basement. (Lots of tree’s mostly shade in my backyard).

My scenario where I live, I still a little confused about this “hibernation“.

How many hours should I keep this light on each day?

Should I lower the light you see in the photos?

The fan is to discourage spider mites. Do I keep it on 24X7? Do I set the fan to oscillate?

Should I buy a fan specially designed like they use for plant tents?

I’m all ear’s ANY tips sharing your experience will be GREATLY appreciated about what is best to do in my situation 🙏🏽🙏🏽

I don’t one to lose one of my babies this winter. (Lost 6 last winter) (only to spider mites BUT my cacti was not where you see them now they were in my warm dry living room.

Thank you ahead of time so very very much. I am new at all this.
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My name is Joe I Live in Hickory NC USA four equal perfect seasons.
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Steve Johnson
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Re: Winter hibernation questions #3

Post by Steve Johnson »

JCcares wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 5:23 pmThe average temperature where you see all my cacti will be 64° never below 59°F
Looks like you have a good setup there, Joe. Winter temps between 59 and 64F in your basement -- good for you, bad for spider mites, so I don't think you'll have a mite problem as you did when you kept your plants in the warm dry living room you mentioned. Now you have an advantage and a disadvantage:
  • Advantage -- indoor lighting means that your cacti won't need to be slowly acclimated to natural light when you bring them outside for the growing season. This avoids a problem caused by growers who keep their cacti in a dark basement during winter. Unfortunately I don't have any experience with proper indoor lighting for cacti, so hopefully other members will guide you in case you'll need a different light setup. My guess is that 8 or 9 hours a day should be fine.
  • Disadvantage -- while a high of only 64°is good for making sure that your plants won't try to grow while they're dormant, South American species such as Rebutia/Sulcorebutia, Copiapoa, etc. need a cold winter rest for them to flower in the growing season. If you have any South American cacti in your basement, an indoor low of 59° pretty much guarantees that they'll never flower.
If you can get your basement down to the upper 40s during the winter, they should flower.
If you just want photos without all the blather, please visit my Flickr gallery.
My location: Los Angeles, CA (Zone 10b)
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JCcares
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Re: Winter hibernation questions #3

Post by JCcares »

Steve Johnson wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 10:20 pm
JCcares wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 5:23 pmThe average temperature where you see all my cacti will be 64° never below 59°F
Looks like you have a good setup there, Joe. Winter temps between 59 and 64F in your basement -- good for you, bad for spider mites, so I don't think you'll have a mite problem as you did when you kept your plants in the warm dry living room you mentioned. Now you have an advantage and a disadvantage:
  • Advantage -- indoor lighting means that your cacti won't need to be slowly acclimated to natural light when you bring them outside for the growing season. This avoids a problem caused by growers who keep their cacti in a dark basement during winter. Unfortunately I don't have any experience with proper indoor lighting for cacti, so hopefully other members will guide you in case you'll need a different light setup. My guess is that 8 or 9 hours a day should be fine.
  • Disadvantage -- while a high of only 64°is good for making sure that your plants won't try to grow while they're dormant, South American species such as Rebutia/Sulcorebutia, Copiapoa, etc. need a cold winter rest for them to flower in the growing season. If you have any South American cacti in your basement, an indoor low of 59° pretty much guarantees that they'll never flower.
If you can get your basement down to the upper 40s during the winter, they should flower.
Thanks Steve. Well all I have to do to drop my basement below 40 degrees is open the windows😂😂😂😂😂

I will check to see if I have any South American species. I’m embarrassed to say I cannot pronounce any of the names of my cacti 😂
My name is Joe I Live in Hickory NC USA four equal perfect seasons.
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Steve Johnson
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Re: Winter hibernation questions #3

Post by Steve Johnson »

JCcares wrote: Sun Oct 02, 2022 3:56 pmWell all I have to do to drop my basement below 40 degrees is open the windows??????????

I will check to see if I have any South American species. I’m embarrassed to say I cannot pronounce any of the names of my cacti ??
Many hobbyists can't pronounce the names, so you're not alone on that issue. The main thing is to know what they are, so I highly recommend that people keep a list of the species they grow -- important for a couple of reasons:
  • If members who aren't familiar with their plants need to ask for advice, mentioning the species name of what they have will lead to useful responses from more experienced members who know the species.
A lot of sellers identify species names of the cacti they're selling, so that's the best way to build a list of the cacti we're buying as we assemble and maintain our collections. If there's no name (or you forgot what it was), you can always post photos on the Cacti Identification forum here:

https://www.cactiguide.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=3

There's no guarantee that other members will give you IDs, but at least it's worth a shot.

South American cacti grow perfectly well without ever flowering -- if you have any in your collection, I'm not sure if it's worth taking the risk of opening the basement windows during your NC winter just on the off chance of seeing them in bloom next year. The last thing you'll want is a snowstorm in your basement! :lol:
If you just want photos without all the blather, please visit my Flickr gallery.
My location: Los Angeles, CA (Zone 10b)
FredBW
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Re: Winter hibernation questions #3

Post by FredBW »

Probably depends on how often you use your basement. But you can close all the heat runs,and i bet it would get pretty cool. Or at least close them when you aren't using it.
I have been keeping a small number of cacti (8 or 10) for years over winter in west and south facing bedrooms for years. Without a grow light. I don't have a thermometer in them. But I'm pretty sure it gets well below 50 when the temp outside drops to zero. Which usually only happens for a few days where I live. My bedroom windows are in the shade "In the summer". In winter it's what you would call indirect sunlight. I do have cacti bloom from time to time. But I have always neglected them. I plan on fertilizing them before next spring and trying harder. I have gone crazy buying cacti the last summer,and i really need to get back to neglecting them. When i look at them too often i am tempted to water and fuss with them. In the past i have always given them a drink at the first of every month. depending on how dry the soil looks. It looks like you have a MARS grow light. I would vary the timer as winter goes along and absolutely not leave it on longer than it is light outside.
I really have no experience using a grow light over winter on cacti. But if it were me and if your MARS is the dimmable kind. I would only have it on 4 to 6 hours a day probably on high coinciding with when it is brightest outside. But as I say, I don't have experience using a grow light over winter. But I believe the bottom line is if they go dormant light isn't all that important,and if they don't go dormant they will need all the light they can get. Is there something in between growing and dormancy? I absolutely believe there is. Just like cold blooded animals move slower the colder it gets. So maybe dimming the light and leaving it on longer is an option.
This winter will be a learning experience for me also,because I have quite a few more cacti than in the past. But cooler temps and lower light over winter has gotten me buy so far. Your mileage may vary.
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JCcares
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Re: Winter hibernation questions #3

Post by JCcares »

FredBW wrote: Sun Oct 02, 2022 9:53 pm Probably depends on how often you use your basement. But you can close all the heat runs,and i bet it would get pretty cool. Or at least close them when you aren't using it.
I have been keeping a small number of cacti (8 or 10) for years over winter in west and south facing bedrooms for years. Without a grow light. I don't have a thermometer in them. But I'm pretty sure it gets well below 50 when the temp outside drops to zero. Which usually only happens for a few days where I live. My bedroom windows are in the shade "In the summer". In winter it's what you would call indirect sunlight. I do have cacti bloom from time to time. But I have always neglected them. I plan on fertilizing them before next spring and trying harder. I have gone crazy buying cacti the last summer,and i really need to get back to neglecting them. When i look at them too often i am tempted to water and fuss with them. In the past i have always given them a drink at the first of every month. depending on how dry the soil looks. It looks like you have a MARS grow light. I would vary the timer as winter goes along and absolutely not leave it on longer than it is light outside.
I really have no experience using a grow light over winter on cacti. But if it were me and if your MARS is the dimmable kind. I would only have it on 4 to 6 hours a day probably on high coinciding with when it is brightest outside. But as I say, I don't have experience using a grow light over winter. But I believe the bottom line is if they go dormant light isn't all that important,and if they don't go dormant they will need all the light they can get. Is there something in between growing and dormancy? I absolutely believe there is. Just like cold blooded animals move slower the colder it gets. So maybe dimming the light and leaving it on longer is an option.
This winter will be a learning experience for me also,because I have quite a few more cacti than in the past. But cooler temps and lower light over winter has gotten me buy so far. Your mileage may vary.

Thank you Fred I really appreciate you sharing your experience with me helps a lot.
My name is Joe I Live in Hickory NC USA four equal perfect seasons.
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anttisepp
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Re: Winter hibernation questions #3

Post by anttisepp »

Maybe it's better to build greenhouse in the yard with some modest heating (will be cheaper than lights) in winter time? It seems to me that NC isn't very cold state. ;)
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JCcares
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Re: Winter hibernation questions #3

Post by JCcares »

anttisepp wrote: Mon Oct 03, 2022 7:24 am Maybe it's better to build greenhouse in the yard with some modest heating (will be cheaper than lights) in winter time? It seems to me that NC isn't very cold state. ;)
anttisepp wrote: Mon Oct 03, 2022 7:24 am Maybe it's better to build greenhouse in the yard with some modest heating (will be cheaper than lights) in winter time? It seems to me that NC isn't very cold state. ;)
I am newbie/ how would I hear it what kinds of heaters are there available and where should I shop for one? Thank you 🙏🏽
My name is Joe I Live in Hickory NC USA four equal perfect seasons.
FredBW
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Re: Winter hibernation questions #3

Post by FredBW »

I wouldn't rush into anything if I were you. Something like a greenhouse needs planning.
I believe your MARS grow light only uses 150 watts on high. That isn't much for all the light you get.
Just a simple space heater uses 1500 watts. You would probably need at least 2. (3000 watts) Then there is all the work of putting it up and anchoring it down.
I think the way you have things now,the worse case is you buy 1 more grow light.
But in reality people have been keeping cacti long before grow lights and plastic greenhouses were available as they are today. And if you put up a greenhouse you will get a new set of problems. Just my opinion :)
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JCcares
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Re: Winter hibernation questions #3

Post by JCcares »

FredBW wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 1:05 am I wouldn't rush into anything if I were you. Something like a greenhouse needs planning.
I believe your MARS grow light only uses 150 watts on high. That isn't much for all the light you get.
Just a simple space heater uses 1500 watts. You would probably need at least 2. (3000 watts) Then there is all the work of putting it up and anchoring it down.
I think the way you have things now,the worse case is you buy 1 more grow light.
But in reality people have been keeping cacti long before grow lights and plastic greenhouses were available as they are today. And if you put up a greenhouse you will get a new set of problems. Just my opinion :)

Thank you Fred. And comments about my fan how long should I keep it on each day and does it need to isolate? Should I lower the light?

And again this dormancy topic keeps getting more and more confusing to me. If there are going to sleep all winter why do should I have any lights at all. The fan and cool temperature should keep The spider mites at bay.
My name is Joe I Live in Hickory NC USA four equal perfect seasons.
FredBW
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Re: Winter hibernation questions #3

Post by FredBW »

That is why I said if it were me,I would only keep the lights on 4 to 6 hours a day. The temps you are talking about in your basement probably won't allow them to go completely dormant. But shorter periods of light,they will know it's winter. And hopefully not grow and etiolate.
If you cut back on light (or shorter days,with some bright light for just a few hours). Cut way back on water. And cooler temps,they should stop growing. Or growth should all but stop. Which is the goal.
The other extreme is bright light and warmer temps to keep them growing. Which I would not do.
I myself haven't used fans in the past,but probably will this winter. But you would definitely want your fan to oscillate,or move it every day,and leave it on as much as you are comfortable with. I myself have plants in 2 different bedrooms,and will probably move just 1 fan from one bedroom to the other every week or so. Or if I get pest problems use 2 fans :D
It looks to me like you already pretty much had a plan for this winter,and it's kind of late to change. So why not stick with your plan and see how it works out?
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JCcares
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Re: Winter hibernation questions #3

Post by JCcares »

FredBW wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 10:50 am That is why I said if it were me,I would only keep the lights on 4 to 6 hours a day. The temps you are talking about in your basement probably won't allow them to go completely dormant. But shorter periods of light,they will know it's winter. And hopefully not grow and etiolate.
If you cut back on light (or shorter days,with some bright light for just a few hours). Cut way back on water. And cooler temps,they should stop growing. Or growth should all but stop. Which is the goal.
The other extreme is bright light and warmer temps to keep them growing. Which I would not do.
I myself haven't used fans in the past,but probably will this winter. But you would definitely want your fan to oscillate,or move it every day,and leave it on as much as you are comfortable with. I myself have plants in 2 different bedrooms,and will probably move just 1 fan from one bedroom to the other every week or so. Or if I get pest problems use 2 fans :D
It looks to me like you already pretty much had a plan for this winter,and it's kind of late to change. So why not stick with your plan and see how it works out?
Thanks Fred for your time and for sharing your thoughts. I am paranoid about spider mites believe it or not it hurt me dearly to lose six Cacti last year last winter. I pray I have learned what I need to know to prevent that from happening again I’m keeping a close watch on the humidity as well.

You should see my set up in my warm living room. I have a humidifier and a fan oscillating with another one of those a good lights. The cacti I have in my living room Bloom thrive in the winter. I also have many one year old seedlings upstairs in my living room.
My name is Joe I Live in Hickory NC USA four equal perfect seasons.
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Carpkel
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Re: Winter hibernation questions #3

Post by Carpkel »

With my ohio winters I must bring my cacti in for their winter rest. I can't get the grow room below 65 F in the grow room even with the heat vents closed, but I plan on installing an outside ventilation fan in the spring. My cacti get 15 hours of grow light a day and stay completely dry. My lights are kept about 3 inches above and sometimes closer. I also use ordinary 4 foot led shop lights in the 3000k and 5000k range. I also have a higher concentration of 5000k than the 3000k lights, about 2 to 1. This setup has worked good for me for many years. My south American cacti and others will still flower in the spring or summer.
7uco
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Re: Winter hibernation questions #3

Post by 7uco »

Hi there. I’m new here but this is the particular subject (dormancy) that I am trying to dial in here in zone 5b.
I hope you don’t mind if I hijack a bit, I figure I can’t be the only person working out future winter care in the middle of summer.

I’m fortunate enough to have a top and side glass sunroom which is heated to 65 degrees throughout the winter. I also keep a handful of tropicals in that room. It has a West/South exposure and on a sunny day in winter, is good for about 7 hours or so of natural light.

What I’m trying to figure out is - am I better putting my cacti collection into true dormancy (above garage, no light, totally dry, 45-55 max temp) or trying to grow all winter long in the sunroom, while supplementing with a couple midpowered LED grow lights? Most of my plants are South American, and most are a step and a half above seedling size currently. Most are also known as slow growers, so I care more about bulking them up right now. But I do worry about water and light needs, and want to avoid elongated growth patterns.

I also have a few agaves and I am in the same boat with them - grow, or neglect and chill.

New to this, so all suggestions are greatly appreciated.

Matt
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Re: Winter hibernation questions #3

Post by jerrytheplater »

I divided my collection up into three categories based on winter needs:

1 Those needing or can handle very cold sub freezing temps in perfectly dry state. Light not needed especially. These are stored in my detached garage and can see temps down to neg 10 F.

2 Those needing chilly above freezing dry conditions 40F plus. These are stored at my friends slightly heated greenhouse kept at 40 F min to keep the floor heat pipes from freezing. They get full winter sun.

3 Those needing warm sometimes damp conditions above 50F and need light. These are kept in my upstairs unheated room under a very strong LED light.

You need to make a list of your plants and see what you have. Divide them up. I used Llifle.com for cactus and succulents and it was a big help. http://www.llifle.com/ Some SA plants grow in the high mountains and handle snow cover in winter. Some grow in the warm jungles. There are many temperature variations in South America.
Jerry Smith
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45 inches (114 cm) rain equivalent per year, approx. evenly spread per month
2012 USDA Hardiness Zone 6b: -5F to OF (-20C to -18C) min.
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