A warning: Spinetoram does not seem to be effective against mealies

Trouble shoot problems you are having with your cactus.
Post Reply
Download
Posts: 251
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2021 5:22 am
Location: Adelaide, Australia

A warning: Spinetoram does not seem to be effective against mealies

Post by Download »

A quick background: I have two "sets" of insecticide. One is my outdoors insecticide, which I purchase from an agricultural supply store. The stuff from the Ag store is waaay cheaper than the stuff I can buy at the hardware store. For example, 200 g/L permethrin in a 200ml bottle is about $15 at the hardware store, but 650 g/L permethrin in a 1L bottle is about $30. So you are getting 4x the volume at ~3x the concentration, or 12x as much insecticide. So it's a no-brainer to buy it from the Ag store.

Except for one thing: most ag store insecticides use kerosene (paraffin in the US?) or something similar as a solvent, which stinks. So while I use the ag store stuff in my grow cabinet in the shed and on my outside plants, for my other grow cabinet in the house (my indoors stuff)I pay the extra money for the hardware store stuff, which is normally dissolved in some less smelly solvent (if it smells at all).

This is where the tale begins.

About half-way through winter (June-July) I spotted a Gymnocalycium mihanovichii at a garden centre with some nice patterning and lots of hairs. It was a good price so I brought it home. It was about to flower despite the season and I had another Gymno in my indoors grow cabinet that was also about to flower, so I hoped to cross breed them. Except, after a few weeks the flower buds died. The cactus then started to look a bit sad, looking dehydrated and then going from vibrant green and black, to a tan and brown colour.

Then I noticed a mealy bug on my single Eulychnia acida seedling in the grow cabinet. I was more than a little peeved as I had gone through a lot of searching to get a hold of one. I then looked through the rest of the plants in the cabinet and found the little bastards were everywhere. The G mihanovichii in particular had tonnes of them hiding in the hairs of the plant

I didn't have any inside permethrin left, so I went to the hardware store intending to buy some more. On the shelf next to the permethrin was Yates "Success Ultra", which is spinetoram. It was about 50% more expensive than the permethrin, but it was advertised as making 40 L of insecticide solution vs 10 L for the permethrin for the same sized bottle, so I figured I'd give it a shot.

That was a mistake.

The spinetoram seemed to kill all the mealies, but a few weeks later I spotted a few more. So I gave another application and then to be sure I gave a second a few days later. This seemed to have done a better job, but about two months later I spotted some more. This time I doubled the concentration and tried again - and nope, still there.

During this I spent a lot of time wondering if I'd just accidentally kept bringing it in from outside, so I was extra careful not to bring things inside for a while. With the next appearance, having had lots of success soil-soaking for fungal problems, I decided to soak all the plants in the cabinet. This seemed to work for about 2 months.

So a month or two back, I decided to put of with my hallway smelling of kerosene for a few days and soil soaked everything in my outdoors permethrin. I think this has worked, mostly because the G mihanovichii started to regain its colour.

Yesterday, now that it doesn't look like its on the verge of death, I repotted it. On the roots there were a lot of those little fluffy white nests that mealies make. I do mean a lot: almost the whole taproot was covered in them. I poked around and didn't see any evidence of live mealies, but just to be sure I dipped the plant in permethrin solution. Then, based on suspicion, I unpotted several other plants and found that they too had mealies all through the roots.

So anyway, spinetoram seems to be kind of garbage. Even going off label with the concentration it barely works, nor does submerging the nests in the stuff.

Anyone else had a similar experience?
keith
Posts: 1860
Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2013 3:50 am
Location: S. CA USA

Re: A warning: Spinetoram does not seem to be effective against mealies

Post by keith »

Anyone else had a similar experience?'

years ago ( 30 ) with Malathion, Cygon and Isotaox all organophosphates mealie bugs would just come back within months. Removed entire collection ( not large at that time ) from pots and removed all roots and replanted all plants in a 30% diatomeaceous earth soil. Root mealy bug they came back but scaria fly went away. Imidacloprid finally got rid of most of root mealie bug and resisting buying any plants at garden centers.

Old cigars and soap also kills root mealie bugs if used as a soil soak but leaves a soap residue.
Minnesota
Posts: 100
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2022 1:00 am
Location: St. Louis Park, MN. Zone 4b, Great Plains/Upper Midwest
Contact:

Re: A warning: Spinetoram does not seem to be effective against mealies

Post by Minnesota »

Hi, Keith,

I'm interested in the home remedy you mentioned, "Old cigars and soap..." As in make a solution from cigars and insecticidal soap? How many cigars? Smoked, or simply cigar? Thanks for any elaboration you can provide.

Bret
User avatar
jerrytheplater
Posts: 1153
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2021 7:38 pm
Location: Bloomingdale, NJ (USDA Zone 6b)
Contact:

Re: A warning: Spinetoram does not seem to be effective against mealies

Post by jerrytheplater »

Being curious and remembering Black Leaf 40 I did some searching on DuckDuckGo. Here is the site and quote on how to make cigar, tobacco tea: https://www.houzz.com/discussions/21024 ... -40-source

I too am in my 80's and still doing my gardening and yard work. In the past I had about 250 orchids and still live on 1 & 1/2 acres of property. Have not been able to buy Black Leaf 40 in years but u can make your own substitute. I go to a big box store and ask for their cheapest cherwing tobacco. Bring it home and empty it into almost a gallon of hot water. Then puncture a hole in the top of the bottle and set it in a sunny spot. I about a month you can strain it and seal it in smaller containers and use it just as you did Black Leaf 40. it is a Bugs-B-Gone for your garden and fruit trees when u spray it on them. I always wash my eatables very good before biting into them. Happy Gardening.

Second post: I've made nicotine tea by the same method, and learned early on that it is quickly absorbed by the skin. When I was making it once I started feeling high, and realized right away what it was. It wasn't a big dose, but it would certainly replace a nicotine patch if anyone needed it!

My main concern with this is the possibility of transferring viruses from the tobacco to the orchids, which is a possibility. What do you think of that concern? Do I worry too much? LOL

Thanks,

Rick


Just remember this contains nicotine and can be absorbed by your skin. Don't get it on your bare skin.
Jerry Smith
Bloomingdale, NJ
45 inches (114 cm) rain equivalent per year, approx. evenly spread per month
2012 USDA Hardiness Zone 6b: -5F to OF (-20C to -18C) min.
Minnesota
Posts: 100
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2022 1:00 am
Location: St. Louis Park, MN. Zone 4b, Great Plains/Upper Midwest
Contact:

Re: A warning: Spinetoram does not seem to be effective against mealies

Post by Minnesota »

Thanks, Jerry! This is a new one for me. I guess the easiest connection to make is the nicotinoids, but I never would have thought to resort to tobacco tea.

I learn something new everyday on here.

Bret
keith
Posts: 1860
Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2013 3:50 am
Location: S. CA USA

Re: A warning: Spinetoram does not seem to be effective against mealies

Post by keith »

One cigar and boiling water add insecticide soap or any pure soap and a little rubbing alcohol. I made a video on youtube actually my youngest made the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNf6rm21-zI and the one cactus the Echinocactus texansis its dead too late to save it too much damage.
Download
Posts: 251
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2021 5:22 am
Location: Adelaide, Australia

Re: A warning: Spinetoram does not seem to be effective against mealies

Post by Download »

Minnesota wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 2:26 am Hi, Keith,

I'm interested in the home remedy you mentioned, "Old cigars and soap..." As in make a solution from cigars and insecticidal soap? How many cigars? Smoked, or simply cigar? Thanks for any elaboration you can provide.

Bret
Nicotine in tobacco exists to protect the plant from insects. It can be extracted for that purpose. I believe that in the US you can also buy nicotine extract insecticide? If not, you can probably get it for vape pens and the like, and then use it for insect killing.
User avatar
Steve Johnson
Posts: 4514
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 4:44 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA (Zone 10b)

Re: A warning: Spinetoram does not seem to be effective against mealies

Post by Steve Johnson »

Download wrote: Thu Feb 16, 2023 4:25 amNicotine in tobacco exists to protect the plant from insects. It can be extracted for that purpose. I believe that in the US you can also buy nicotine extract insecticide? If not, you can probably get it for vape pens and the like, and then use it for insect killing.
That's a really good tip for grower who either can't get or don't want to use Imidacloprid. However, I wouldn't recommend using cigarettes to make tobacco tea because cigarette tobacco is loaded with all kinds of nasty chemicals not found in cigars. (Not that cigars aren't nasty too, I'm just saying.) By the way -- for people who aren't aware of this, Imidacloprid is a nicotine extract insecticide.
If you just want photos without all the blather, please visit my Flickr gallery.
My location: Los Angeles, CA (Zone 10b)
Post Reply