Copiapoa cinerea

[Minnesota]

Good Morning,

So excited that I have to let someone know--Just sowed 10 C. cinerea seeds 4 days ago and had a 90% germination rate! This was my first effort, and getting the seed was difficult. I went through CactusKingdom in CAN, and I know I overpaid, but I really wanted the exercise. The seed was worth the moment of achievement, though. Seed #10 appeared to be slightly damaged and grew out a fungus; otherwise, I might have had the chance for 100% germ.

After reading post after post, I went with individual pots to avoid the repotting risks associated with young specimens. The seed was really light and drifted throughout the pot surface, so I had the experience of finding and placing the tiny seedlings into a small hole in the center of the pot and guiding the rootlet into the sand bed. Everything was done under clean/sterile conditions, inclusive of medium sterilization aside from the mycorrhizal inoculant. Anticipating future time frames, I layered the potting medium: a bed of sand/minimal organic over a bonsai/fine-medium grit/sand/light limestone/minimal organic blend lightly inoculated with mycorrhizae from East Coast Camanchaca. As they increase in size, I believe that I'll add a custom layer of mineral blend with mycorrhizae to secure and stabilize the seedlings, as well as for consistent appearances. The mix drains so quickly that these first days have required misting twice daily just to maintain moisture for germination. I've kept the pots covered with clear plastic domes in a moderate window lighting. Fortunately, temperatures have been moderating seasonally from day warm to cool nights.

At this time, I could really use any information or suggestions for care and development that anyone has--literally anything. When to uncover, fertilizer timing, air flow, misting to replicate natural conditions, etc. I'd really appreciate hearing anything helpful, and also to have any further resources/recommendations.

Thanks for listening!

--Bret

[MrXeric]

Congrats! I bought cinerea seed from CactusKingdom a few years ago and nothing germinated, but then again I don't have much luck with germinating Copiapoa! I've only had luck with 3 other species and those I've exposed to open air within 3 months of germination, but others would probably leave them in humidity for longer. Fully hydrating the potting medium may be better than just misting the surface.
Good luck on your seedling!

[Minnesota]

MrXeric--thank you for the kind words! I'm ecstatic. If you see a tiny figure on the horizon, dancing a little jig--well, it''s me.

Great suggestion to hydrate the medium fully. I've been so focused on the seed on the surface that the rest of the pot has escaped attention. This might help root development to run deeply as well. I appreciate the idea and will figure out how to incorporate this. Three months off humidity is just about the horizon I was hoping for, too. Setting June as a goal for a slight drying seems just about perfect if the seedlings tolerate acclimation. Question: what have you done for lighting for your Copiapoa? I'm trying to be conservative and patient, but the lighting is really puzzling me.

Thank you for any tips and pointers you might have.

--Bret

[jerrytheplater]

I'm wondering about the layering of your growing medium you spoke about. Is it just a layer of sand over a second main growing mix?

Remember that drastic differences in soil texture greatly affects water drainage in a pot. You can get perched water tables in your pot. The old idea of a layer of gravel in the bottom of a pot to improve drainage in the pot has been shown to be incorrect. What actually happens is the potting mix acts like the pot is only as deep as the depth of the potting mix. The water does not drain well in the transition between the gravel and mix.

Could this be happening in your layers?

[Minnesota]

Hi, Jerry,

Good to hear your concerns. Actually I've been following this site frequently for educational purposes as I undertake learning about cacti. A little background: fascinated by Ariocarpus here since the 1970's; I have 130 babies from last year coming out of the nursery now at 12 - 20 mm developing tubercles. They're a bit on the pigmented side, but doing well overall (so I think). I have my challenges (there is no such thing as too much of a good thing!) I have caused the demise of many plants with this (PLANT--"gurgle, gurgle, gurgle--AhhhhhF!). Over attention and care are downfalls; the most difficult thing for me is self-restraint. To turn and walk away is the greatest kindness, I am learning. So, after studying the genus and natural habitat of C. cinerea, I arrived at the growing medium I'm using. The next level of this challenge is that I don't know a thing about actually growing these plants, so I'm soliciting/begging for anything anyone knows. I'm a fan of great specimens, grown a little on the hard side for natural beauty. I hope I'm using the terminology correctly. My goal is that black-spined, grey-green, compact, solid beauty.

To your statement. Briefly, yes. This is a 2-3 cm accretion disk of sand/fine grit on top of the medium-sized, uniform grow mix of bonsai mineral (4-6mm) 60%, medium sand 20%, fine sand 5%, lime 1-2%, and a pre-configured South American mix with mycorrhizae. There are slightly more than trace organics in three of these components. The seed bed essentially floats on the growing medium in a 3-5 mm deep form that should disperse into the growing medium over time. I hope that it essentially erodes into the medium with watering. I understand the concern for stratification and tabling; I didn't design any part of this to perform that way, but I will watch for it. I think I recall you asking that of someone else--didn't the finer particulates wash down through the medium with watering? To some degree, I believe that this will occur--I am counting on it to occur. Once the seedlings are established, I'd like to top dress with a coarser version of the South American mix for uniformity and protection to the actual growing medium.

A part of this experience is to try out the mineral composite that Steve Johnson advocates, and C. cinerea seems like a decent candidate for several reasons--root system, rot concerns, rapid drainage, etc. Watering seems a bit more complex with the seasonal issues; Mike in Oz has said something to the effect of dry summer/wet winter. Light is another huge question for these. If you have any suggestions, comments, or resources, please offer them. Otherwise, I'm winging it with these babies, and I really would like to succeed.

--Bret

[keith]

I don't grow copiapos but seems you're off to a good start. Hard to find for a decent price but I did manage to rot a cinerea I had bought at Poots nursery before the big run up in prices. bummer it was small lemon sized 10 bucks. what are they now like 200 bucks !!

[Minnesota]

I don't grow copiapos but seems you're off to a good start. Hard to find for a decent price but I did manage to rot a cinerea I had bought at Poots nursery before the big run up in prices. bummer it was small lemon sized 10 bucks. what are they now like 200 bucks !!

lol...thanks, Keith. I follow a number of your comments and glean the important tips you set out, so to hear your experience is heartening. Some of the little guys are looking a bit puny, but hanging in there. The darn seed cases are creating a micro fungus and hanging on; I've been gently trying to pry them off today and treating with an antifungal. Four or five are going strong, though! Fingers crossed!

--Bret

[keith]

Remove old seed shells is a good move but can be tricky. I would start to expose to drier air if you have fungus problems. I made this video ( actually my kids did ) showing how I germinate cactus from seed. You can skip the boring parts in the beginning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iyBiZPgzOc

[MrXeric]

MrXeric--thank you for the kind words! I'm ecstatic. If you see a tiny figure on the horizon, dancing a little jig--well, it''s me.

Great suggestion to hydrate the medium fully. I've been so focused on the seed on the surface that the rest of the pot has escaped attention. This might help root development to run deeply as well. I appreciate the idea and will figure out how to incorporate this. Three months off humidity is just about the horizon I was hoping for, too. Setting June as a goal for a slight drying seems just about perfect if the seedlings tolerate acclimation. Question: what have you done for lighting for your Copiapoa? I'm trying to be conservative and patient, but the lighting is really puzzling me.

Thank you for any tips and pointers you might have.

--Bret

Months old seedlings I keep like most other cactus species, under LED lights diffused with parchment paper to keep them just a bit on the darker side of green. I have 2 year old C. calderana 'lembckei' seedlings I keep outdoors, but under window screen. Despite not getting direct sun, they are a nice dark, brown-green with a purplish blush.

[Minnesota]

Remove old seed shells is a good move but can be tricky. I would start to expose to drier air if you have fungus problems. I made this video ( actually my kids did ) showing how I germinate cactus from seed. You can skip the boring parts in the beginning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iyBiZPgzOc

Keith--thank you for the link. The viewing was informative and instructional--fungicides, drying and air circulation, and the A. fissuratus at one year. Mine are the same age--good to see. And such a huge collection!

I have two seed cases left, but 7 seedlings are sturdy and strong, one is questionable, and one is downright iffy. The material inside the case supporting the germ grows fungus like no one's business. When we come through this and the little one's are ready, one might have to go to your place to replace that Poot's $10 special.

Much appreciated.

--Bret

[Minnesota]

MrXeric--thank you for the kind words! I'm ecstatic. If you see a tiny figure on the horizon, dancing a little jig--well, it''s me.

Great suggestion to hydrate the medium fully. I've been so focused on the seed on the surface that the rest of the pot has escaped attention. This might help root development to run deeply as well. I appreciate the idea and will figure out how to incorporate this. Three months off humidity is just about the horizon I was hoping for, too. Setting June as a goal for a slight drying seems just about perfect if the seedlings tolerate acclimation. Question: what have you done for lighting for your Copiapoa? I'm trying to be conservative and patient, but the lighting is really puzzling me.

Thank you for any tips and pointers you might have.

--Bret

Months old seedlings I keep like most other cactus species, under LED lights diffused with parchment paper to keep them just a bit on the darker side of green. I have 2 year old C. calderana 'lembckei' seedlings I keep outdoors, but under window screen. Despite not getting direct sun, they are a nice dark, brown-green with a purplish blush.

Pointing me in the right direction for your lighting care--much appreciated, MrXeric. As we move forward toward that ideal specimen, I think I hear that I can be a bit more aggressive.

Thank you!

--Bret

[FredBW]

I have some copiapoa margineta,and copipoa bridgesii I started from seed last October.
I sewed them in 50% store bought cactus mix,and 50%perlite. I cooked the soil in an old pressure cooker. Sprayed the seeds in peroxide,and added distilled water. Marrs grow light and heat mat. Both were in bags almost exactly 4 months. They did really well in the bags. I only unbagged them because I thought they were getting big. I unbagged them cold turkey and they didn't seem to mind.
After unbagging I have been watering them on a wicking mat by night,and back on the heat mat by day. Wicking mat bottom waters them,and I kind of go by weight to tell how damp the soil is, They might spend 3 or 4 nights a week on the mat. Grow light has always been dimmed 50% or more 12 hours a day. When seedling start turning red I dim it a notch

The problem I have not been able to solve is the fungus gnats. I have probably lost over half of the seedlings to the gnats. I have made mosquito bit tea and dribbled with a turkey baster. But it is more work than i am committed to doing. I tried quartz sand for terrariums,but I don't think any of my seedlings liked that. (I question salt content) I had yellow sticky traps over vinegar from the get go and also a bug zapper . I tried sprinkling diatoms on top of the soil recently and think it might be working. Time will tell.
I realize they aren't cinerea. But they are Copiopoa's. It is springtime now and i will be too busy to experiment. But i will have another go at it with gnats high on the priority list probably next fall. I did spray them with distilled water for a bit to mimic habitat. But they were drying out so I went back to the wicking mat method of watering.


I am most certainly no expert. But I have 18 different kinds of seedlings I did in 3 or 4 batches fall and winter and this was my first attempt. They were all doing great until the gnats wreaked havoc. I still have way more seedlings than I know what to do with though despite the gnats.

[jerrytheplater]

The problem I have not been able to solve is the fungus gnats. I have probably lost over half of the seedlings to the gnats. I have made mosquito bit tea and dribbled with a turkey baster. But it is more work than i am committed to doing. I tried quartz sand for terrariums,but I don't think any of my seedlings liked that. (I question salt content)

I don't find making the tea difficult. Just soak the bits for maybe 15 minutes or so. Strain. Water.

Salt content: quartz is totally inert. Silicon dioxide. Just like glass. And.. if there were any salt, a simple rinse would remove it. But, if the product is being sold for a plant use, I doubt the seller would sell it if it could damage plants. Think of the bad publicity.

[keith]

Store bought cactus mix is why you are attracting fungus gnats I don't use it for cactus. Try reducing the amount and adding diatomaceous earth to your mix . I use sand for my seedling cactus you could add that and reduce the amount of cactus mix . I collect sand so its mixed grain size some very fine some not so fine. Green thumb nursery sells horticultural sand in small bags kind of a larger grain size.

Long ago I had major problems with fungus gnats now I just see a few .

[Minnesota]

I have some copiapoa margineta,and copipoa bridgesii I started from seed last October.
I sewed them in 50% store bought cactus mix,and 50%perlite. I cooked the soil in an old pressure cooker. Sprayed the seeds in peroxide,and added distilled water. Marrs grow light and heat mat. Both were in bags almost exactly 4 months. They did really well in the bags. I only unbagged them because I thought they were getting big. I unbagged them cold turkey and they didn't seem to mind.
After unbagging I have been watering them on a wicking mat by night,and back on the heat mat by day. Wicking mat bottom waters them,and I kind of go by weight to tell how damp the soil is, They might spend 3 or 4 nights a week on the mat. Grow light has always been dimmed 50% or more 12 hours a day. When seedling start turning red I dim it a notch

The problem I have not been able to solve is the fungus gnats. I have probably lost over half of the seedlings to the gnats. I have made mosquito bit tea and dribbled with a turkey baster. But it is more work than i am committed to doing. I tried quartz sand for terrariums,but I don't think any of my seedlings liked that. (I question salt content) I had yellow sticky traps over vinegar from the get go and also a bug zapper . I tried sprinkling diatoms on top of the soil recently and think it might be working. Time will tell.
I realize they aren't cinerea. But they are Copiopoa's. It is springtime now and i will be too busy to experiment. But i will have another go at it with gnats high on the priority list probably next fall. I did spray them with distilled water for a bit to mimic habitat. But they were drying out so I went back to the wicking mat method of watering.


I am most certainly no expert. But I have 18 different kinds of seedlings I did in 3 or 4 batches fall and winter and this was my first attempt. They were all doing great until the gnats wreaked havoc. I still have way more seedlings than I know what to do with though despite the gnats.

Thanks for sharing your routine, Fred. I'll check out the details that look like I can try or adopt.--Bret