Eulychnia castanea f. varispiralis brown and not growing

[jerrytheplater]

Please see my comments re. the John Innes No. 2 compost he's using -- given the fact that the product already has an unknown quantity of fertilizer in it, we'll consider this along with what he said earlier in the thread:

But at the moment it's just in John innes 2 and some cat litter. Feeding it miracle grow. Previously I had used cacti fertiliser like chempak etc

Now we'll look at the photo he posted to start the thread:

c2929682-b4af-46e9-8a88-eb4bd289a55b.jpg

To my eyes, that photo has "badly and persistently overfed" written all over it. If you concur, then adding fertilizer on top of the John Innes makes no sense, and doing so would only make matters worse for the plant along with any other cacti Hero878 is trying to grow.

Not knowing how much fertilizer is in John Innes fertilizer is a problem. All we are doing is guessing. My guess: they are not using any slow release fertilizer that will last for years. Ever look at the labels of fertilizer containing potting mix in the US? It is extremely low in concentration and really only for initial success of the grower. Again, those are my guesses. I also guess that the fertilizer will leach out fairly quickly and his first photo is not due to the John Innes #2. It is the Miracle Gro etc. DaveW could shed some light on John Innes composts.

If all Hero878 can get is John Innes compost, I'd say use it with caution and maybe use half strength custom fertilizer solutions for the initial few fertilizings. Watch the plants to see how they react.

How much will the percentage be of the John Innes#2 in his mix? Assuming it will be low. That is another factor in our favor.

[Hero878]

Thanks guys. I bought some Epsom salts today. Will get some Ca next.? Not sure about how well fertilised the soil is but it shouldn't last long hopefully.
I also have a set of measuring spoons which I usually use for cooking but will get a new set to replace them.
All this mixing talk reminds me of when I did chemistry in school. I'm happy to water in the supplements separately to prevent any adverse reactions.

[Steve Johnson]

Before we do anything, there are a few matters to discuss.

Not knowing how much fertilizer is in John Innes fertilizer is a problem. All we are doing is guessing. My guess: they are not using any slow release fertilizer that will last for years.

I think you could be onto something -- from Gardeners' World, this is an example of what one of the John Innes composts looks like:

2048x1365-Platycodon-SEO-LI3172849-c9aabdb.jpg (95.31 KiB) Viewed 3670 times

I don't see any slow-release fert granules there, so if the John Innes 2 contains a low-level fertilizer that won't last long, Hero878 can speed up the process by flushing his pots with distilled water and nothing more:

• Saturate the mix until water comes out the drain hole like a faucet.

• Wait for an hour, and flush again.

• Wait for another hour, and flush for the 3rd time.

When the mix dries out completely from the top to the bottom of the pot, this will give the roots of his cacti a "clean slate" with no fertilizer left in the JI 2, at which point he can fertilize per my recommendations. Unfortunately it'll be too late in the growing season to expect much of an improvement yet, but at least it'll give him a good head start on next year's growing season. And he might be pleasantly surprised -- I sure was when I started supplementing my Dyna-Gro 7-7-7 with potassium sulfate in August 2020. At the end of that summer, the improvements were small but quite noticeable on a good number of my cacti.

DaveW could shed some light on John Innes composts.

Good idea -- since he lives in the UK and he's been growing cacti for a long time, I'll send him a PM and ask him to review "the facts of the case" here. If he's familiar enough to know the JI 2, he can tell us whether or not it contains a low-level fert that is leached out easily by flushing. I'm pretty sure that it is, but it would be nice to get confirmation. The flushing I just mentioned is Plan A. In case there's a good reason for not flushing Hero878's pots, this is Plan B:

If all Hero878 can get is John Innes compost, I'd say use it with caution and maybe use half strength custom fertilizer solutions for the initial few fertilizings. Watch the plants to see how they react.

I bought some Epsom salts today. Will get some Ca next.? Not sure about how well fertilised the soil is but it shouldn't last long hopefully.

First of all -- if you wouldn't mind waiting a little bit, you'll find out whether you should go with plan A or Plan B.

I PM'd our horticulturalist-in-residence MikeInOz with the details regarding the Chempak clematis food, my calculations and dilutions, etc. This is what he had to say:

I don't see any problem with that Steve. Especially if his John Innes mix has some loam in it. The JI mixes usually have some dolomite added as well so he probably won't need to worry about added Ca and Mg for 3 years and not at all if his water has it. He can also use Gypsum for the S.
Cheers
Mike

Check your source for JI 2 and find out if it does have some dolomite in the compost you're getting. I've always thought that hard water is bad for cacti (or at least desert cacti), but now I wonder if it's one of those myths people keep falling for. I can see how high mineral content in well water would be a problem, although I think the hardness in your tap water isn't so high and in fact could be an asset. Jerry taught me about the difference between temporary and permanent hardness, so let's break it down:

• Calcium bicarbonate existing in tap water represents temporary hardness. When the water evaporates, we're left with insoluble calcium carbonate which is unavailable to plants. Temporary hardness can be measured with a pH meter -- if you test your tap water and it reads above 7.0, the reading will tell you that you may need to acidify the water. Whether you need to or not depends on a couple of factors, the pH of your potting medium and any affect the fertilizer (plus supplements if required) has on the water's pH. A bit too complicated to get into now, but we can discuss this later if you'd like.

• From LibreTexts Chemistry:
  "Hard water is water containing high amounts of mineral ions. The most common ions found in hard water are the metal cations calcium (Ca2+) and magnesium (Mg2+), though iron, aluminum, and manganese may also be found in certain areas. These metals are water soluble, meaning they will dissolve in water. " [My emphasis]
  
  That's permanent hardness which can't be measured with a pH meter. Doesn't matter though, because if your tap water is within acceptable limits, your cacti will be able to get plenty of Ca and Mg from there even if the JI 2 doesn't contain any dolomite. As Mike said, you can add Gypsum to your mix for the S. How much and in what form -- powder or gravel? Unfortunately I can't answer those questions because my cacti get enough sulfur from the ammonium sulfate and potassium sulfate supplementing my General Hydroponics ferts.

If you'd rather not mess around with the possibility that you'll have to acidify your tap water, watering your cacti with rainwater will make things easier for you. Should that be the case, the Cultivers CaO and Epsom salt will be required to supplement the Chempak clematis food.

[DaveW]

Steve PM'd me for the original formula of John Innes (JI) mixes often used in the UK.

These were originally formulated by the John Innes Institute in Britain to provide scientifically proven general potting soils for the trade to use to replace the old gardeners hit and miss unscientific formulations. Unfortunately due to good loam being hard to get these days and peat going out of fashion in the UK the original formulations have often now been adulterated with peat bring replaced with composted garden waste. Therefore you have to be selective whose brands you use.

By the way potting soils are often called "potting composts" in the UK since I suppose the old gardeners used to use their own rotted compost as an ingredient. JI mixes were designed for general plants and are unsuitable for our plants used neat unless grit is added to make them drain quicker or cat litter = Molar Clay the red clay granules type, is added to speed up drainage.

John Innes (JI) original formulas.

https://www.gardeningdata.co.uk/soil/jo ... ate%20lime.

The original JI fertiliser mixture is now usually substituted for a general balanced fertiliser in commercial mixes these days.
Note that JI 1-3 are identical mixes. only the amount of fertilisers added differs.

For a time in the UK, due to good loam being hard to obtain, peat composts took over. The University of California (UC) introduced them in America and Arthur Bowers in the UK copied them. Now peat is out of favour with the "save the peat bogs" movement wanting us to use Coir or CoCo Peat instead, the waste from the coconut industry which has taken over in some cases

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF02232897

Now the trend seems to be to purely mineral mixes with volcanic products like pumice etc and certain types of cat litter (= molar clay). Also some types of commercial type oil absorbent materials as recommended on Cactiguide or the BCSS Forum are also suitable, but get the correct type since as with cat litter for cats they all serve the intended purpose but not necessarily for growing plants. We rather acquired the use of cat litter etc from the Bonsai hobby who discovered it before us.

https://www.forum.bcss.org.uk/viewtopic ... cat+litter

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=ca ... ORM=WRVORC

[Steve Johnson]

Thanks for your insight, Dave. Hero878, I'm beginning to wonder if you should be using any of the JI products for your cactus mix. I'll recommend that you go with straight pumice -- available on Amazon UK here:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/SHOP-Natural-G ... 262&sr=8-4

UK GROW clay pebbles could be another good option for you:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/UK-GROW-Pebble ... r=8-6&th=1

I grow almost all of my cacti in a 60% pumice and 40% granite gravel mix, and I've found that cactus roots thrive in it due to the mix's open aeration. The only downside is that you'll have to fertilize every time you water, but it's not much of a downside, and IMO the benefits of the hydroponic approach are worth the trouble.

[Steve Johnson]

Hero878 -- upon further review, I'm leaning more toward the UK GROW clay pebbles as the best option for you. Although I can't tell what the different pebble sizes are, I think the clay pebbles should be fine even in small pots. The only thing you may want to do there is take out the biggest pebbles. A layer of gravel top dressing on your pots isn't a bad idea (I've insisted on top dressing with my cacti for many years). Just make sure the gravel isn't the tiny stuff as tiny gravel holds moisture you won't want around the base of the plant.

[Hero878]

Thank you both for your advice! Much appreciated!
I just got some 4-10mm leca pebbles which should be perfect!

Regarding the JI2 it usually looks plain with no signs of fertiliser granules in it but it does say on my latest pack that it has added nutrients and trace elements.

[Steve Johnson]

I just got some 4-10mm leca pebbles which should be perfect!

Regarding the JI2 it usually looks plain with no signs of fertiliser granules in it but it does say on my latest pack that it has added nutrients and trace elements.

Although I don't use them myself, I think you'll be happy with the leca pebbles. I'm always skeptical of potting soils (or in your case the JI 2 compost) with fertilizers "baked in" precisely because we don't know what's in the fert and how much of it is in the soil. Great for nonxeric plants, but for cacti and succulents we need to have control over the "what" and "how much" of the fertilizers we use. I already gave you the dilutions for the Chempak clematis food, CULTIVERS CaO supplement, and Epsom salt, so you'll be good to go once you move your cacti from your current mix to the leca balls. If you can do it while you have some summer left, excellent. If not, you won't be able to start fertilizing until your next growing season begins in spring. The reason for that (in case you don't already know) -- ferts do nothing in fall and winter because cacti are dormant.

Two last items for your attention...

When you unpot your cacti, clean the roots thoroughly before you repot. Rinsing alone doesn't quite cut it, so fill a container with water, gently swish the roots around, and use something like a q-tip handle, knitting needle, etc. to "tease" the residual compost out of the roots. Once they're squeaky-clean (or at least close to it), let them dry out, then repot. Whenever I repot my cacti, I let them settle in for 2 weeks before I water, so I highly recommend that you do the same.

Leca pebbles have very low cation-exchange capacity (CEC), and that's why you'll need to fertilize every time you water your cacti in the growing season. Any nutrients not taken up by the roots are left behind as fertilizer salts in the substrate. Salt buildup can be a problem over time, so a standard part of your growing practice should include flushing your pots with distilled water or rainwater and nothing more once a year in the growing season.

Thank you both for your advice! Much appreciated!

Always a pleasure!

[jerrytheplater]

This may not have any bearing on the mix Steve is now suggesting, but for what it is worth. And, thanks to Dave for posting up the ingredients of the JI soils. I've always wondered.

Dave's link for the JI fertilizer mix says it uses Hoof and Horn Meal. That is an organic supplement using slaughterhouse byproducts that once decomposed by soil bacteria will release Nitrogen. Very slow release. The others are completely soluble chemical fertilizers. You could really disregard the nitrogen content. I have to wonder if it will release in a pot. Again, do soil bacteria colonize our cacti pots?

https://www.aces.edu/blog/topics/vegeta ... ic-garden/

[Hero878]

Thanks for the further advice i.e. on repotting. I normally leave some soil on the roots but I guess it's better to clean them properly.I have repotted this particular cacti but may do it to others that have not been growing such as my Lophocereus schotti cacti.
It's good to know that the Ca and Mg in tap water would be sufficient. I do use a water filter usually to remove the Chlorine but it doesn't really filter out Ca or Mg so that will be fine.
Really looking forward to the next growing season with new hope now

[Steve Johnson]

Thanks for the further advice i.e. on repotting. I normally leave some soil on the roots but I guess it's better to clean them properly.I have repotted this particular cacti but may do it to others that have not been growing such as my Lophocereus schotti cacti.

A cautionary tale -- this is what happened when I failed to thoroughly clean the roots of an Echinocereus rigidissimus rubispinus in 2012:

Echinocereus_rigidissimus_var_rubispinus_rot_07152012.jpg (127.18 KiB) Viewed 3550 times

I lost another cactus for precisely the same reason, so I had to learn the hard way. A few bits of compost clinging to the roots won't cause any trouble. A clump of compost hiding under the base will because it'll take too long to dry out, so be sure to clean it out before your repot. By the way, sorry for being Mr. Picky-Fussy, but...

Cactus -- singular
Cacti -- plural

Really looking forward to the next growing season with new hope now

Always happy to help! If you have any further questions, please don't hesitate to ask.

[Hero878]

Thanks again Steve. Yes I definitely removed most of the soil off so as to not have a clump large enough to cause rot phew. Good to know that I can leave some bits clinging onto the roots though.

What about "cactuses"? I often see people say that.

I know its early days but I already noticed some of plants reacting to the clematis fertiliser

[Steve Johnson]

I know its early days but I already noticed some of plants reacting to the clematis fertiliser

Good! Are the changes noticeable enough to see in photos? If so, post a photo or two. If not, maybe you can describe them -- I'll be interested in any progress you're making by the time the summer part of your growing season ends.