Lolavy’s Seedlings Journey

All about seed grown plants. How-to information, progress reports, show of your results.
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Lolavy
Posts: 33
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2023 6:08 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA (10b)

Lolavy’s Seedlings Journey

Post by Lolavy »

I’ve been holding off on starting a new topic to track my seedling journey now that I’m 7 months in, I’m still tinkering with my method, and aside from the psychic pain caused by the idea of cropping all the pictures, I’m not quite sure the best way to show progress across the over 40 pots I have going that range from 4 weeks to 7 months old. That said, there’s no time like the present, so I think I’ll start by just sharing my current regiment.

For context, my very first sowing (primarily Lophophoras + E. Rigidissimus - viewtopic.php?p=404475#p404475), I had what I now realize were pretty decent germination rates, and no problems with mold, fungi, etc. Well, that is until I tried to transition them to reduced humidity conditions…but that’s a post for another time.

After that sowing, I ran out of the soil mix I used, and subsequent sowings have been plagued with (1) 0-5% germination rates; (2) mold and fungi outbreaks galore; (3) damping off; and (4) stunted growth rates (relative to my first sowing).

In the last two months, changes to my methodology has resulted in improvements to problems 2-4, though my germination rates continue to be very poor. I’ll continue to tinker with my soil mix and sowing methods to try and move the needle on the germination rates, but in the meantime here goes…

Pot Prep

1) I use individual 3” pots and use a soldering pen to make drainage holes in the bottom. After soaking them in a 50/50 bleach mix overnight, I run them through the sterilization cycle in my dishwasher, and then spray them with 70% rubbing alcohol in front of the flow hood, where I leave them to dry. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B4S2ZSDB?ps ... ct_details

2) I place a piece of felt (previously sterilized in pressure cooker, then soaked in 3% hydrogen peroxide before use) over the holes, and then a single layer of 3/8” - 5/8” zeolite and chicken grit rocks on the bottom of each pot before filling them with whatever soil mix I’m currently experimenting with. I’ve experimented with both mixes sterilized in the pressure cooker and “out of the bag” with no noticeable difference.

3) I then place all the pots in a large lidded container before adding 30-60 ml of ~1.5% hydrogen peroxide to each pot. The grittier the mix, the less hydrogen peroxide I need to saturate the mixture. I then let the pots sit for anywhere from 24-72 hours, depending on my schedule.

4) After the pots have been soaking in the hydrogen peroxide, I then add 20-30ml of prepared BanRot fungicide to each pot, followed by ~10-15ml of distilled water to “water it in” as the directions recommend. Per the manufacturer’s guidelines, BanRot should be applied at least two days before sowing seeds, so I let the pots sit for 48+ hours, again, depending on my schedule, I’ve let it sit for up to 5 days before the next step.
https://seedbarn.com/products/banrot-40 ... 0278334564

Note: This stuff is no joke and I follow all recommended PPE guidelines which can be found here: https://www3.epa.gov/pesticides/chem_se ... 210422.pdf

5) I next add systemic insecticides (Arber Insecticide, SNS 209, and Imadicloporid), a natural bacteria-based fungicide (Arber or Garden Friendly Fungicide), and a Vitamin-B supplement mixed into enough distilled water to add 20-30ml of solution to each pot. https://www.amazon.com/Mad-Farmer-Vitam ... B00F5EQSYI

Before I started using BanRot, I’d also experimented with adding other fungicides (Phos; Chinosol), but I’ve found no difference in results when using them at this step, so to keep it simple, I no longer do. I then let this solution soak in for at least 12 hours.

When I was first testing out this method, I let the fully treated pots sit in the incubation chamber for a month to see if any mold would grow without any seeds, and when I finally showed seeds in those pots, they worked just fine, so technically you can keep the pots in this state for as long as you need in a sealed environment (i.e. lidded container).

6) Just before sowing the seeds, I add a super thin layer of top dressing that has been previously sterilized in a pressure cooker. Currently, I’ve been playing around with a bunch of different substrates (chic grit, 1-3mm zeolite, limestone grit, 1-2mm aquatic pebbles) but I can’t say I have a favorite since my germination rates continue to be so low across the board #-o

Seed Prep

1) After counting out seeds, I place them in little baggies I make with fine mesh baggies made for tea and hot glue. The bags then get soaked in distilled water for a few hours to overnight, usually in the fridge.

2) I then soak the bags for 10-60 minutes in a 40% bleach solution (I aim for 10, but sometimes my ADHD gets in the way). The bags then get rinsed under running water (the lowest trickle possible from my sink faucet) for 1-2 hours.

3) I then soak the bags in 1.5% food grade hydrogen peroxide for 4 hours, and then again perform a running water rinse, though usually for 30-60 minutes, unless I forget, and then it can be up to 2 hours.

4) At this point, I either place the bags in a new/clean plastic baggie filled with distilled water, or, if I’ve time things right, I will place the bags into a bowl of warm distilled water with a magnetic stirring stick at the bottom and place the bowl on top of the magnetic stirrer and let that run for a few days. As I posted previously (viewtopic.php?p=406005#p406005), I will change out the water every 12-24 hours, using previously pressure cooked rain water for the last 24 hour “swirling rinse”.

Sowing Method

I have adopted the C&D Sowing Method verbatim (https://www.cactiguide.com/forum/viewto ... 26#p300126) with minimal variation, except:

1) I continue to lean on my mushroom growing roots and sow seeds in front of a flow hood, and I like to clean my gloved hands as well as all my tools with 70% rubbing alcohol between sowing individual pots. Because the pots were treated with BanRot, while sowing, I also use PPE, and place the pots on top of clean wrapping paper leftover from my last move. The used paper then gets thrown away after being left to dry completely in front of the flow hood.

2) ~30minutes before I get started, I soak a bunch of toothpicks in 70% rubbing alcohol, and use those to transfer seeds from the bags they were soaked in into the pots, using a new toothpick in between bags/pots. Those toothpicks then get placed in some foil and are put through a sterilization cycle in the pressure cooker so they can be reused later.

3) I use the lids that came with the pots to cover each pot individually. After all the seeds are sown, the pots are placed on top of a capillary mat inside my germination chambers/wet box (a translucent restaurant supply full sized pan on top of a heating pad and under grow lights).
A week after the first sign of germination in a given pot, I crack open the lid of the pot slightly, but leave the pot in the germination chamber/wet box.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001VT5IN8/re ... ZAM6A&th=1


My oldest seeds sown using all three of these methods are just under two months old, and so far, so good…except for my germination rates.
Someone suggested I try using sifted Poots cactus mix (https://pootscactusnursery.com/shop/p/poots-soil-blend), and so half the pots I currently have soaking use the Poots mix (sifted using a 2mm screen) as is, and the other half uses the Poots mix amended with 1/8” pumice, 1-2mm chip grit, zeolite, limestone grit, etc. I plan to sow a new batch of soaked/rinsed seeds in those pots over the weekend. That said, I’m always open to ideas, so feel free to chime in if you have any helpful thoughts or suggestions!
Location: Los Angeles, CA
USDA Hardiness Zone: 10b
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Tom in Tucson
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Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2022 4:12 pm
Location: NW Tucson AZ area

Re: Lolavy’s Seedlings Journey

Post by Tom in Tucson »

The carefully controlled conditions which you stated obviously describe your serous determination to achieve your germination goals.

If you don't mind my purely anecdotal suggestions, maybe they could boost your results in any future attempts.

I've been growing cacti from seed for many years. My first attempt was based on an article written roughly 50 years ago in the American cactus and succulent journal. As I recall the author reported using a method which had worked with azalea seeds. He used 100% shredded dry sphagnum moss. He stated that azalea growers found that the use of that soil resulted in very high yields with few pathogens.

He focused on rare South American cerioid seed from many genera. In recent years it has been found that cacti of this type are typically fast, and with high percentages of success under a wide number of conditions.

My success with a variety of genera of other types of cacti using similar methods (moss, sealed sandwich bags, and an outdoor California shady summer climate) got me hooked on adjusting the variables as you've described. Since that time, I continue to experiment.

In summary, I suggest you try cacti of this easy type first, and then return to the types you desire after you get reasonable results. Good luck!
keith
Posts: 1868
Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2013 3:50 am
Location: S. CA USA

Re: Lolavy’s Seedlings Journey

Post by keith »

I use a wet then dry then wet again approach to germinating cactus seeds some are just stubborn to start . Don't keep the seeds wet for weeks at a time if you don't get any germination but maybe you already know this ?

I also wouldn't bother adding insecticide at this time just another poison to deal with .
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Lolavy
Posts: 33
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2023 6:08 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA (10b)

Re: Lolavy’s Seedlings Journey

Post by Lolavy »

Thanks for weighing in @Tom in Tucson and @keith!

@Tom in Tucson - I know I’m overdoing it at this point, but I reached such a high frustration point after month after month of near zero germination rates and constantly fighting off fungal/mold infestations. Fwiw, I have had very little success with the supposedly easy to grow species like Mammillarias and Echinocereus’, and much better luck with Lophophoras and Astrophytums, though it’s all relative (i.e. 0% vs 5%). The only sphagnum moss I have access to right now is part of a mix for my orchids, but once I find a new job/client, that’ll be something I’ll have to try.

@keith - I’d been letting the pots stay in the incubation chamber for 8 weeks before pulling them to dry out (if fungus or mold didn’t get to them first), but after one pot of Ariocarpus’ began to germinate the day before I was planning to remove it from the incubation chamber to dry out, I’ve been giving the pots 10 weeks. Is that too long? A few weeks ago, I tried re-wetting ~20 pots that had previously dried out and restarting the germination cycle, but so far, none of those pots have shown any signs of germination. A few of them did start growing mold, so I put them back on a bookshelf to dry out. Thanks for the heads up on the insecticides! When would you suggest using them? My mushies are grown in the same space and highly susceptible to fungus gnat infestations, so I’ve been trying to be cautious, but if it’s for naught, I’m happy to save some money.
Last edited by Lolavy on Fri Apr 19, 2024 3:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
Location: Los Angeles, CA
USDA Hardiness Zone: 10b
User avatar
Lolavy
Posts: 33
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2023 6:08 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA (10b)

Re: Lolavy’s Seedlings Journey

Post by Lolavy »

It’s been 3 days since I sowed seeds in 18 new pots using the method I outlined in my last post, and I’m happy to say that 5 of the 18 pots are already showing signs of growth! :P

Perhaps it’s related, but I ran out of space under the grow lights, so I placed the pots in the incubation chamber under a single CFL bulb using a light socket from a broken lamp.
Pots in Chamber under CFL bulb without lid
Pots in Chamber under CFL bulb without lid
IMG_2024-04-18-115922.jpeg (224.01 KiB) Viewed 627 times
The bulb gets so hot that it not only melted the hot glue I had used to attach the socket to a foil pan, but the heat from the bulb was also spiking the temps in the incubation chamber close to 100F. Accordingly, I removed the lid on the chamber and the temperature of the pots are now in the 80s - low 90s during the day.

I’ll have to figure out what to do about lighting once the seeds have germinated, but that’s a problem for another day.

Today, I am just celebrating that I have more than one pot with more than one germinated seed — a first since my maiden pot sowings back in September! =D> :lol:

EDIT: As of 4/18, I am up to 10 of 18 pots with germinated seeds!! 8)
Location: Los Angeles, CA
USDA Hardiness Zone: 10b
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