New Dirt

Post by **daiv** » Sun Sep 18, 2005 3:38 am

Well I thought I'd mention that today I decided to try two new formulas for my soil mix. One for desert cacti and one for the epi cacti.

I am simplifying. Here is what I mixed:

Desert Cacti
1 Part Potting Soil
2 Parts Pumice

I also added this fertilizer:
A 1/60th scoop of bone meal
About 1/120th scoop of Osmocote

Jungle Cacti
2 Parts Potting Soil
1 Part Pumice
2 Parts Coarse Orchid Bark

I added the same fertilizer as above

I'm not quite sure how this is going to work, but I wanted to at least experiment with a simple formula. I haven't changed the "Growing Cacti" page yet as I don't know if it will be better. I've also been thinking about tracking down some Coir too as I've only used peat and I think it might produce even better results.

Stay tunned...

Mike A · Post by **Mike A** » Sun Sep 18, 2005 8:53 am

Coir? how can that help?

Post by **daiv** » Sun Sep 18, 2005 4:16 pm

Here is a page with the histoy.

http://fida.da.gov.ph/Coir4.html

Note the use as a growing medium is a bit of an after thought.

Coir is "clean to use, long lasting with excellent water retention and aeration - plants love it."

Un-like peat moss which is hard to re-wet once it is dried out. Peat is great for plants that don't want their roots to dry out. But for succulent plants like cacti that grow better if you let the growing medium dry between waterings, you run into the problem when you go to water of the peat staying dry unless you really soak it, which many cacti aren't to wild about.

So coir makes a great addition to the mixture and I would probably start with 1 parts coir, 1 part potting mix, and 3 or 4 parts pummice. I would have to see what it looks like after mixing to be sure.

The trouble is, coir is not readily available. You won't find it in WalMart or Home Depot. You probably won't find it at most plant nurseries either.

Mike A · Post by **Mike A** » Sun Sep 18, 2005 4:36 pm

Cacti don't like soaked soil for long periods of time, but so far what I've been doing is soak my pots and then just let them dry out. No coir included. Works fine, no deaths so far

But anyway, let me know how you experiment goes.

templegatejohn · Post by **templegatejohn** » Sun Sep 18, 2005 7:01 pm

Hi Daiv,

I have also been incorporating bone meal into my compost as a slow release fertiliser for about 18 months and it seem to work very well. Coir does not seem to be readily available where I come from, but I would also like to give that a try.

Many of the European nurseries are now actually growing their plants solely in an inert material such as pumice (again this is something not available to me unless I bought it in amounts that would be far too great for my needs). This of course has no nutrient value whatsover for the plant and a weak feed has to be applied at each watering, but I have heard that using this method the root growth has to be seen to be believed.

Cheers,
John

ihc6480 · Post by **ihc6480** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 12:18 am

Daiv,

Theres no doubt in my mind your plants will benefit from a little bone meal. Because of my wifes gardening habits she also includes my cacti when she applies bone meal to her flower beds.
Ain't she a sweetheart to think about my cacti

Bill

Buck Hemenway · Post by **Buck Hemenway** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 4:11 pm

I know that a lot of people use peat as their main organic component. I am really against it because of the high acidity of the peat plus the re-wetting factor. Remember that most of our plants grow naturally in very lean soil, to mostly rock of one sort or another. It's my contention that cacti and succulents in general are best off in as neutral a soil as possible.

The mix that I'm buying has blood meal in it and I think its working beautifully.

Buck

Post by **daiv** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 4:14 pm

I noticed the bag of blood meal right next to the bone meal. Any idea what the difference is? Which might be better. I guess I could research on the web, but how about experience one vs. the other?

Post by **daiv** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 3:02 am

I got my first bale of Coir! I am so excited. Orange County Farm Supply, which is a bit up the freeway from here carries it. Gene from the OCCSS picked some up for me and brought it to last Thursday's meeting.

Here is what it looks like:

It takes some time to break it down/apart as it is very compact from being compressed into a bale.

What does the mean? I'm experimenting with a NEW mix. I actually did re-re-pot a couple from last weekend that I put in the simpleton mix listed above, but left some so I could compare the results. Here is the new mix(s):

Desert Cacti
4 Parts Pumice
2 Parts Coir
1 Part Potting Soil

I also added this fertilizer:
A 1/60th scoop of bone meal
About 1/100th scoop of Osmocote

Jungle Cacti
2 Parts Coarse Orchid Bark
2 Parts Coir
1 Part Potting Soil
1 Part Pumice

I added the same fertilizer as above

I am interested in seeing how well it drains when I water it this weekend as well as the following weeks to compare how it holds moisture or not.

Post by **daiv** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 3:21 am

Here are a couple of subjects of the repotting described above:

The very healthy root system of an Epiphyllum anguligar

The happily repotted Selenicereus anthonyanus in a 2 gallon pot!

comike · Post by **comike** » Sun Nov 27, 2005 1:58 pm

Hello Daiv,
I realize this is an older post but it got me started looking into coir.

When I've repotted store cacti I looked at their soil. Now I think coir might be what I've seen in the mix. (strong, mat-like, thick fibers)

Looking around and reading *on-line, one of the only disadvantages I found to using coir was the possibility of it having a high salt content.

Many months later, what lessons have you learned about using COIR in your soil mix? ---mike co

*Heres a link I found that compares growth results of using peat vs coir:
http://www.usu.edu/cpl/PDF/CoconutCoirP ... arch='coir'

Post by **daiv** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 12:29 am

I would say it is still too soon to tell for sure. I haven't lost any so that is good. Several of the more hardy ones are really going crazy (H. undatus, E. oxypetalum, etc), but that could just be because they really wanted to be repotted. I am pleased at how loose the mix still is. It is not nearly as heavily compacted as the peat gets.

So far -no regrets.

comike · Post by **comike** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 2:57 pm

I know where an old half buried Volkswagon seat is, and it sure looks like its'inside form was made of coir.

The strands are slightly bigger than most of those in your coir bale picture. I think I'll give it a try!

mikeco

Post by **daiv** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 4:44 pm

You know, it if very possible that they did use coir for that. It is used in furniture packing.

comike · Post by **comike** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 4:25 pm

(The websites about coir mentioned one of its biggest industrial uses was in automotive seat materials/padding/forms)

anyway, I felt sure enough about id'ing it to make it part of my New Dirt for 2 mammillarias.

It had to be cut up with scissors first.
Following Daivs advice for a desert cactus I made a mix that contained roughly 20% coir. (remainder being equal parts coarse sand, perlite, & compost)
Yesterday I added it into a new soil mix for a "Copper King" & one other 'mamm' I have. Thanks, Mike

New Dirt

New Dirt

coir question and a link