Cacti Guides' Lophophora Guide

If you have a cactus plant and need help identifying it, this is the place to post it.
DaveW
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Re: Cacti Guides' Lophophora Guide

Post by DaveW »

The Lophophora is a bit over potted, it may grow better in a smaller pot and you can pot it on later as it grows. What potting soil is it in, I presume not just in limestone chips? Lophophora's do like a bit of water in the growing season. L. williamsii is the easiest to obtain so it's probably that.

"Thought id add my picture to the Loph. Jourdana (ahrg...darn phone keeps changing it back to that)" Yes should be Lophophora jourdaniana.

I have the same trouble with my computer spell checker KittieKat and have to go back and change specific names it substitutes for similar words in it's dictionary. Also it will often capitalise specific names it thinks are named after people when I want them to correctly remain with a lower case one. You can evidently put the name it keeps changing into it's dictionary and then it will not, but too much of a chore for all names that it may change. I find if you go on for a word or so and then go back and change it that solves the problem since it usually changes the name as you start the next word. You can often turn the spell checkers off, which solves the problem, but I can't spell, plus it also picks up all the typing errors with my fast one finger typing.
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widea
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Re: Cacti Guides' Lophophora Guide

Post by widea »

Got another one: Image diameter about 4 cm.
The ribs are very 'superficial', is it Diffusa?

The other one I repotted to a smaller pot, hopefully it recovers.
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adetheproducer
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Re: Cacti Guides' Lophophora Guide

Post by adetheproducer »

Looks more like williamsii, the ribs a quite defined and fairly straight. Diffusa have more wavy ribs which tend to be less prominent than this. Also the flowers are more white on diffusa. Take look of the picture its pretty much smooth but if you look closely you can make out the undulating creases that define the rib edges.
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widea
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Re: Cacti Guides' Lophophora Guide

Post by widea »

adetheproducer wrote:Looks more like williamsii, the ribs a quite defined and fairly straight. Diffusa have more wavy ribs which tend to be less prominent than this. Also the flowers are more white on diffusa. Take look of the picture its pretty much smooth but if you look closely you can make out the undulating creases that define the rib edges.
Thank you, I see the difference now.
DaveW
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Re: Cacti Guides' Lophophora Guide

Post by DaveW »

lophophora's.jpg
lophophora's.jpg (99.21 KiB) Viewed 19189 times
Left to right:- Lophophora williamsii, L. fricii, L. diffusa.

Lophophora kohresii (greener body than most other Lophophora's)
kohresii.jpg
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Lophophora alberto-vojtechii (much smaller body, mature plants usually no more than 1 inch across, the coin is 2cm= 3/4 inch across).
L-alberto-vojtechii.jpg
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Lophophora jourdaniana (never been found in the wild in recent times so assumed to be a cultivated hybrid)
Lophophora jourdaniana.jpg
Lophophora jourdaniana.jpg (99.04 KiB) Viewed 19189 times
Lophophora williamsii itself is very variable as are many Lophophora's from different localities. Note how woolly Ade's L. diffusa is around the crown to mine. Their appearance can also change as they age.
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adetheproducer
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Re: Cacti Guides' Lophophora Guide

Post by adetheproducer »

That's an old picture of my diffusa I realised, its go a lot more woolly since then. I'll upload some more photos of my l.williamsii later when I get home from work, got a few of them all showing different variabilities of ribs and wool it should give you an idea of how they can look so different.
And as the walls come down and as I look in your eyes
My fear begins to fade recalling all of the times
I have died and will die.
It's all right.
I dont mind
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adetheproducer
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Re: Cacti Guides' Lophophora Guide

Post by adetheproducer »

Red is lophophora williamsii, the box on the left are all about 6 years old theres 5 spiral ribs, 8 wavey ribs 5 straight ribs and multi head forming. The two boxes in the middle are all quite young so look similar with the normal 5 straight ribs but that does change with time.

Yellow is lophophora williamsii from the Huizache region. These should form lots of offsets when older but you can see them adding a new rib so developing the more adult look rather than the young 5 rib look.

Blue are lophophora williamsii caespitosa with many heads offsets and wierd eruptions from areoles.

Green are lophophora diffusa the smalksmsmaller single head with short hair is the same plant as the double headed one to its right, I had cut off a damaged head and luckily got it to re-root and heal but it shows the typical young look with 8 wavey crease like ribs

Orange is lophophora jourdaniana mine has lots more offsets than dave's but you can see the flowers are the same.

Purple is lophophora diffusa fricii its a bit scruffy looking but shows the lesser defined ribs than the normal diffusa and blue-green/grey colour where as the normal diffusa is more yellow/green.
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adetheproducer
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Re: Cacti Guides' Lophophora Guide

Post by adetheproducer »

Just took a look at that last post and the picture has compressed quite badly so here are some better shots. I'll try to keep them in the order I gave earlier.
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Spiralling ribs
Spiralling ribs
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8 wavey ribs
8 wavey ribs
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5 straight, the picture does not show it but there a two more ribs starting to push out from the central tuft
5 straight, the picture does not show it but there a two more ribs starting to push out from the central tuft
20150629_182651.jpg (63.46 KiB) Viewed 19168 times
Multi head forming, the main head when blind and then the splat grew on top followed by the sides
Multi head forming, the main head when blind and then the splat grew on top followed by the sides
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The young ones
The young ones
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Huizache
Huizache
20150629_182701.jpg (89.18 KiB) Viewed 19168 times
My big caespitosa
My big caespitosa
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Medium and little caespitosa
Medium and little caespitosa
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One plant two pots
One plant two pots
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Mmm fury
Mmm fury
20150629_182733.jpg (71.79 KiB) Viewed 19168 times
Jourdaniana and fricii
Jourdaniana and fricii
20150629_182749.jpg (76.04 KiB) Viewed 19168 times
And as the walls come down and as I look in your eyes
My fear begins to fade recalling all of the times
I have died and will die.
It's all right.
I dont mind
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Onzuka
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Re: Cacti Guides' Lophophora Guide

Post by Onzuka »

Did you grow the caespitosas from seeds, Ade?
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adetheproducer
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Re: Cacti Guides' Lophophora Guide

Post by adetheproducer »

No all these lophs where purchased and grown on, the little caespitosa was a small seedling and has doubled in size since I bought it. The biggest caespitosa does flower so hopefully I will get some seeds from that this year, I have got about 9 tiny 1 year old l.williamsii but did not take picture of them suppose I should up load one of them too.
And as the walls come down and as I look in your eyes
My fear begins to fade recalling all of the times
I have died and will die.
It's all right.
I dont mind
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I DONT MIND
DaveW
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Re: Cacti Guides' Lophophora Guide

Post by DaveW »

Roger Ferryman has just been to habitat and saw some of the "different" Lophophora species there and remarked to me "I could not see any real difference, they were all just williamsii's to me!". Lophophora, like Mammillaria, is probably over split and the only real difference between many is the flower colour since body ribbing can also vary within the same population and age of plant. As with DNA Sequencing and Morphological classifications it depends whether you classify plants on their chemical composition or looks.

"By mid-century greater accessibility of peyote locations in Texas and Mexico permitted extensive field work which has shown that plants of the genus Lophophora, especially in the north and central regions of its distribution, are highly variable with regard to vegetative characters (i.e. colour, rib number, size, etc.). The number and prominence of ribs, slight variations in colour, and the condition of trichomes or hairs have tended to be three of the main characters which have delineated many of the proposed species and varieties of peyote; however, these characters vary so greatly even within single populations that they are an insufficient basis for separating species—if a species is considered to be a genetically distinct, self-reproducing natural population."

"Field and laboratory studies show that there are two major and distinct populations of peyote which represent two species. The first, Lophophora williamsii, the commonly-known peyote cactus, comprises a large northern population extending from southern Texas southward along the high plateau land of northern Mexico. This variable and extensive population reaches its southern limit in the Mexican state of San Luis Potosi where, near the junction of federal highways 57 and 80, for example, it forms large, variable clumps. The second species, L. diffusa, is a more southern population that occurs in the dry central area of the state of Queretaro, Mexico. This species differs from the better-known L. williamsii by being yellowish-green rather than blue-green in colour, by lacking any type of ribs or furrows, by having poorly developed podaria (elevated humps), and by being a softer, more succulent plant."

http://entheology.com/research/botany-o ... illiamsii/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That link may be a little out of date now depending on whether you are a "Lumper" or "Splitter", but if you want to look for differences see:-

http://www.kadasgarden.com/CLophophora.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.magicactus.com/lw_camargo.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://lophophora.blogspot.co.uk/p/geog ... phora.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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adetheproducer
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Re: Cacti Guides' Lophophora Guide

Post by adetheproducer »

I tend to agree with the lumper point of view with lophophora but there are some phenotypes I do like. I know in the grand scheme of things there is little difference between all my williamsii which is why I used totally unscientific descriptions of some of the rib patterns but the L.williamsii huizache have a tendency (according to most of my reading) to offset slightly differently making new plants rather than a multi headed tuber.
And as the walls come down and as I look in your eyes
My fear begins to fade recalling all of the times
I have died and will die.
It's all right.
I dont mind
I dont mind.
I DONT MIND
Onzuka
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Re: Cacti Guides' Lophophora Guide

Post by Onzuka »

Does your reading tell you how the offsets become detached from the parent plant, Ade? To make a new plant, it would have to. Are they very loosely attached and ev_olved to come away easily to aid dispersal? Its the first I've ever heard of this.

Steve
Last edited by Onzuka on Tue Jun 30, 2015 6:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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adetheproducer
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Re: Cacti Guides' Lophophora Guide

Post by adetheproducer »

I spent a whole day digging the internet so cannot remember exactly where I read it but most likely drips and drabs form multiple sources. I do think its mentioned on the http://www.magicactus.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; website in the growers notes. They apparently form as loosely attached offsets and set root quickly, kind of like matucana polzii or eriosyce essmereldana do, then separate and form a new plant. Time will tell and will inevitably upload my experiences as and when they offset.
And as the walls come down and as I look in your eyes
My fear begins to fade recalling all of the times
I have died and will die.
It's all right.
I dont mind
I dont mind.
I DONT MIND
KittieKAT
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Re: Cacti Guides' Lophophora Guide

Post by KittieKAT »

Here's my 3 seed grown Loph. Decipiens!
I call them the 3 musketeres!
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