I only find tiny cactus now
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WayneByerly
- Posts: 1240
- Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 10:35 pm
- Location: In the north end of the Sequachee Valley, 65 miles north of Chattanooga Tennessee USA. Zone 7a
I only find tiny cactus now
The following is something of a rant. I don't necessarily expect any solutions here, but if anybody has any ideas that will help ease my unhappiness with the situation, I'd be glad to hear about it. When I first started buying Cactus 8 or 9 years ago, the cacti that I bought would be of a size suitable for 6 inch pots. Nowadays some of the cacti that come to me when bought through the internet are barely big enough to fit in a 4-inch pot. Sometimes smaller. I just recently bought a cactus through Amazon, and when it came it was only 24 mm wide. What happened to the cacti for sale that were suitable for 6-inch pots and why are the cacti that you can buy nowadays so small?
Make the moral choice & always do what's right. Be a good example. Be part of the solution & make a contribution to society, or be part of the problem & end your life with nothing but regrets. Live a life you can be proud of! Zone 7a
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Atozbotanicals
- Posts: 201
- Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:22 am
- Location: Lewisville,TX, USA
- Contact:
Re: I only find tiny cactus now
Well for online sellers, it’s much easier to ship smaller plants, along with the fact that most of the sellers are looking to make good profit and therefore have to move their stock quickly (making for small, younger plants) in physical nurseries it may be that in recent years there’s been less serious collectors of Cacti/succulent plants, they’ve become a huge trend but these people buying into the trend aren’t looking to buy a huge plant or even 6 inches+, they want the cute, easy to care for and not big.
17 year old Cactus enthusiast specializing in hard growing North American species.
Re: I only find tiny cactus now
Plants for enthusiasts are getting smaller and dearer in the UK too. A 4 inch pot is a big pot for many plants here, they will be only fit 2 inch to 2.5 inch pots and cost around £2-£2-50p ($2.76-$3.44). The Garden Centres often have crazy prices on plants in larger pots now. You are lucky in the USA and warmer countries you have a climate where nurserymen can often grow cacti without artificial heat, something which pushes up the cost in much of Europe.
As to postage rates, our Post Office now charges a few Pounds for a small parcel of plants, therefore the cost of shipping can often exceed the value of the plant. EBAY is often dearer than buying straight from a nurseryman and although we can import from other EU countries, often the price of the plant is reasonable but the shipping cost makes it uneconomical.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_odkw ... U&_sacat=0
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_odkw ... w&_sacat=0
The problem with habitat countries is collectors got used to buying large plants cheaply stripped from habitat, or collected by themselves where they or the dealer had to put no time in growing them to that size. However habitat stripping has now been clamped down on around the world, therefore most dealers now have to produce them from cuttings or seed, which costs time and money. The days of big cheap plants are over I am afraid. If you want many species you now either have to grow from seed yourself or buy them from a dealer who has done the work for you and wants paying for that, therefore it will cost you money and proportionately much more the larger plant you want.
Cacti, for the trouble they take to grow, are less profitable for nurserymen than ordinary plants. In the UK where we need to use heat over the winter a nurseryman can charge as much for a bedding plant in a pot raised in one year from seed as probably a five year old seedling cactus, meaning they can make much more profit from ordinary plants. In order to keep the price down obviously they are now putting out the plants at a smaller earlier stage and letting the collector grow them on themselves.
When I started in the 1960's we used to buy cacti from a local market stall in 2.5 inch pots imported from Holland for 2/6d (12.5p in present British coinage = $0.17) but obviously wages were much lower in those days too. In most cases when I am after a certain species all I want is a start, since I am quite prepared to grow it on myself. Some people, particularly those that show plants, often want to buy ready made plants rather than grow them on themselves. Each to their own, but the latter way is a far more expensive way of collecting and for the biggest plants these days you will need a fat cheque book since they can no longer usually legally be obtained cheaply from the wild anymore.
As to postage rates, our Post Office now charges a few Pounds for a small parcel of plants, therefore the cost of shipping can often exceed the value of the plant. EBAY is often dearer than buying straight from a nurseryman and although we can import from other EU countries, often the price of the plant is reasonable but the shipping cost makes it uneconomical.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_odkw ... U&_sacat=0
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_odkw ... w&_sacat=0
The problem with habitat countries is collectors got used to buying large plants cheaply stripped from habitat, or collected by themselves where they or the dealer had to put no time in growing them to that size. However habitat stripping has now been clamped down on around the world, therefore most dealers now have to produce them from cuttings or seed, which costs time and money. The days of big cheap plants are over I am afraid. If you want many species you now either have to grow from seed yourself or buy them from a dealer who has done the work for you and wants paying for that, therefore it will cost you money and proportionately much more the larger plant you want.
Cacti, for the trouble they take to grow, are less profitable for nurserymen than ordinary plants. In the UK where we need to use heat over the winter a nurseryman can charge as much for a bedding plant in a pot raised in one year from seed as probably a five year old seedling cactus, meaning they can make much more profit from ordinary plants. In order to keep the price down obviously they are now putting out the plants at a smaller earlier stage and letting the collector grow them on themselves.
When I started in the 1960's we used to buy cacti from a local market stall in 2.5 inch pots imported from Holland for 2/6d (12.5p in present British coinage = $0.17) but obviously wages were much lower in those days too. In most cases when I am after a certain species all I want is a start, since I am quite prepared to grow it on myself. Some people, particularly those that show plants, often want to buy ready made plants rather than grow them on themselves. Each to their own, but the latter way is a far more expensive way of collecting and for the biggest plants these days you will need a fat cheque book since they can no longer usually legally be obtained cheaply from the wild anymore.
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ElieEstephane
- Posts: 2909
- Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 12:10 am
- Location: Lebanon (zone 11a)
Re: I only find tiny cactus now
I thought cacti would be cheaper in your countries given that they are produced locally. 95% of our cacti are imports from holland/spain/belgium... and i find the prices to be very reasonable. The standard price for a 2 inch pot is 2$ going to 3.5$ in high end stores. The nursery i buy from sells them at 1.33 to 1.66$ and i usually buy them at 1$. 4 inch can go from 3 to 7$ depending on the shop. With my connections i buy at around 2.5$. 6 inch pots are less common but the ones i buy at 7-9$. The same 6 inch plants from the same source cost 20$ in another shop! You can buy several 12-16" plants in one pot at around 25-30$. Bigger ones are ridicoulsy expensive. However, i don't have lots of choices and have to buy from what's available. Sometimes you'd be surprised what you find.
Why not try to grow from seeds wayne?
Why not try to grow from seeds wayne?
There are more cacti in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
One of the few cactus lovers in Lebanon (zone 11a)
One of the few cactus lovers in Lebanon (zone 11a)
Re: I only find tiny cactus now
The situation is similar with that of the food packaging: they lower the net weight or volume little by little trying to keep prices ~ the same, hoping buyers will not mention the change. Or will think: "Whatever, these will be grown up soon."
Or maybe retailers follow the consumers' preferences and try to offer more small plants as more and more people now live in tiny apartments (and less -- in spacey houses with huge back yards) and will be glad to find and get smaller plants in smaller pots. For example I would not expect to find a Rebutia or Frailea in a 6 inch pot: that would be over-potting and overpricing. Otherwise you will change that pot from a store to better one at home so there is no need to buy a big one.
Or maybe retailers follow the consumers' preferences and try to offer more small plants as more and more people now live in tiny apartments (and less -- in spacey houses with huge back yards) and will be glad to find and get smaller plants in smaller pots. For example I would not expect to find a Rebutia or Frailea in a 6 inch pot: that would be over-potting and overpricing. Otherwise you will change that pot from a store to better one at home so there is no need to buy a big one.
If your cacti mess in your job just forget about the job.
°C = (°F - 32)/1.8
°C = (°F - 32)/1.8
Re: I only find tiny cactus now
If it's a case of two species I want for the price of one larger species of the two I always buy the two plants, unless the big one really is worth a lot more than the two smaller ones.
Re: I only find tiny cactus now
I too believe, that cacti in larger pots are oftentimes too expensive, especially for people who have not purchased cacti before. They take longer to reach a decent size, thus requiring more time and money for the grower to produce, and, if shipped also resulting in a higher expense.
Because I do like to experiment with cacti - in order to see, whether they will grow, being permanently planted in my front yard - I also do shy away from spending too much money and then being disappointed, when the plant does not grow for me. With the small pots, the loss of a plant does not hit me as much in the pocket book.
Just yesterday, I did purchase a cactus (Neolloydia conoidea) in a 2 3/4 inch (7 cm) pot. That plant cost me $7.00 plus 58 cents of tax. The cost is most likely so high, because two people drove about 3 hours to set up the sale tables. They had to spend two nights and still make profit on the sale of the plants. The FloraFest was held yesterday and today from 09:00 h - 16:00 h (9 a.m. - 4 p.m.).
The funny thing is, I do live in an environment, where I could grow a lot of the cacti myself, living in the Chihuahuan Desert. I have had more than a dozen plants grow from seed dropped by the mother plant and some of those plants are large enough to flower by now. However, for new genera or species I do purchase a small plant. That way, I can pick a plant, which I have had the opportunity to evaluate according to health, growth, spine characteristics, etc.. If I were to grow the plants from seed, I would not be able to keep all the seedlings, because of limited space, plus it would be difficult for me to pick out the best one(s) to keep and either throw away the rest or give them away.
Harald
Because I do like to experiment with cacti - in order to see, whether they will grow, being permanently planted in my front yard - I also do shy away from spending too much money and then being disappointed, when the plant does not grow for me. With the small pots, the loss of a plant does not hit me as much in the pocket book.
Just yesterday, I did purchase a cactus (Neolloydia conoidea) in a 2 3/4 inch (7 cm) pot. That plant cost me $7.00 plus 58 cents of tax. The cost is most likely so high, because two people drove about 3 hours to set up the sale tables. They had to spend two nights and still make profit on the sale of the plants. The FloraFest was held yesterday and today from 09:00 h - 16:00 h (9 a.m. - 4 p.m.).
The funny thing is, I do live in an environment, where I could grow a lot of the cacti myself, living in the Chihuahuan Desert. I have had more than a dozen plants grow from seed dropped by the mother plant and some of those plants are large enough to flower by now. However, for new genera or species I do purchase a small plant. That way, I can pick a plant, which I have had the opportunity to evaluate according to health, growth, spine characteristics, etc.. If I were to grow the plants from seed, I would not be able to keep all the seedlings, because of limited space, plus it would be difficult for me to pick out the best one(s) to keep and either throw away the rest or give them away.
Harald
Re: I only find tiny cactus now
If you live in an area with a cactus club Hegar you can always swap spare seedlings with others for something you want, or sell them at a club meeting to recoup your seed and pots cost. I suppose we are spoilt in the UK with a fairly widespread club or branch system, since almost all are local Branches of the British Cactus and Succulent Society. However there are not quite as many local branches as when cacti were most popular in the late 1960's when just our Nottingham Branch had over 100 members, covering an area smaller than a cattle ranch in Texas! We now have around 20 members. Being a member of a local cactus club has kept my interest going for 57 years and provided me with many plants I would have had a job to find otherwise, particularly when older members collections are inevitable broken since as none of us are immortal.
The American Society has quite a few affiliated clubs though and the German Society is very strong I believe as with some other Continental Societies.
This link shows cactus clubs in most countries that have them:-
http://www.cactus-mall.com/clubs.html
The American Society has quite a few affiliated clubs though and the German Society is very strong I believe as with some other Continental Societies.
This link shows cactus clubs in most countries that have them:-
http://www.cactus-mall.com/clubs.html